Billy Graham Center

Collection 386 - Charles H. Dawson. T2 Transcript


Click here to listen to an audio file of this interview (33 minutes)

This is a complete and accurate transcript of the tape of the oral history interview of Charles H. Dawson (CN 386, T2) in the Archives of the Billy Graham Center. No spoken words have been omitted, except for any non-English phrases which could not be understood by the transcribers. Foreign terms which are not commonly understood appear in italics. In very few cases words were too unclear to be distinguished. If the transcriber was not completely sure of having gotten what the speaker said, "[?]" was inserted after the word or phrase in question. If the speech was inaudible or indistinguishable, "[unclear]" was inserted. Grunts and verbal hesitations such as "ah" or "um" were usually omitted. The transcribers have not attempted to phonetically replicate English dialects but have instead entered the standard English word the speaker was expressing.

Readers should remember that this is a transcript of spoken English, which follows a different rhythm and rule than written English.

  ...        Three dots indicate an interruption or break in the train of thought within the sentence on the part of the speaker.

  ....       Four dots indicate what the transcriber believes to be the end of an incomplete sentence.

 ( )      Words in parentheses are asides made by the speaker.

 [ ]      Words in brackets are comments by the transcriber.

This transcript was made by Wayne D. Weber and Hannah Parish and was completed in January 2011.

SHUSTER: This is a continuation of the interview with Reverend Charles Dawson in his home in Riverton, New Jersey on February 22nd, 1988.

DAWSON: I believe I was in Liberia in 1980 [phone rings] ‘80 [pauses] it’s been about five years...about ’83. And then a couple years later, we went to East Africa. That was in ’85. That was three years ago. But this trip was just…we had…what I was just saying about someone discipling you, he’s taken about six men….

SHUSTER: Who was this?

DAWSON: Brother Thorpe.

SHUSTER: And he is…he was one of your missionaries?

DAWSON: He was one of our missionaries. He felt led of the Lord just to…to disciple about six men in the event that the door was closed to the American Negroes. You know, they’ve had a couple of coups over there, and we don’t want to talk too much about that. Not the internal stuff, but they’ve had some problems. He thought that if we had black African leadership there were rooted and grounded in the Word, and this is where the men are now. In fact, Thorpe just returned in January. He was there about six weeks I guess. And the work is growing. They put up three or four churches. In fact, I got a letter from one of the teachers there. Charles Monque [?], he was a principal of the school that is downstairs. But he had another church that just recently started. The work is beginning to move…move. And thank God, without black male leadership there. If they can do it, better yet. Because they know the people, the language, the culture, everything. And if we support them we still have a...still have a [unclear]. And then maybe every year, or every other year, one of our brothers will go to the field just to encourage them.

SHUSTER: Now do you have women missionaries from….?

DAWSON: Yeah, yes.

SHUSTER: What…what are they doing?

DAWSON: Well, one has an orphanage. And the other one is the principal of the school there, a teacher. Miss Daphne Henderson. She just returned about two weeks ago. Daphne Henderson.

SHUSTER: She’s returned to Liberia…returned to Liberia?

DAWSON: No, she just came back from Liberia


DAWSON: She’s been on the field about seven or eight years without a furlough. And that’s far too much, we like to see them.... But since we haven’t been able to get other American, whether it be men or women, to go…. but in the meanwhile, the Lord has been doing something with these other eight men now being trained. Teaching and preaching the word of God.

SHUSTER: Where in Liberia are they preaching?

DAWSON: Well this is up in the bush country, they call it Bopolu.

SHUSTER: Bopolu….

DAWSON: Bopolu. B-O-P-O-L-U Bopolu. And that’s about seventy, eighty miles north of the capital, Monrovia. But back up in the bush. And its…its exciting about what God’s able to do…. We’re not able to recruit black men for the field, and we have difficulty getting black men to serve on the board.

SHUSTER: Why is that?

DAWSON: I don’t know. [whispers] I say commitment, I say devotion. If you’re devoted to the Lord, Paul says, after he got saved, says, “Lord, what would you have me to do?” [Acts 9:6] Isaiah said, “Lord, send me.” [Isaiah 6:8] If you’re not committed, if they’re not committed, I just say forget it. I don’t care whether you’re black, white, or yellow, doesn’t make a bit of [difference]. If he’s not committed to Christ, he’s not going to be committed to the work. And if on the other hand, if you’re devoted and committed to Christ, I’ll shake hands, I’m the same kind of nut. And we’re connected to the same boat, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you’re committed. I don’t want to deal with anyone that’s not committed. You know, depend on one who’s not committed. Because if a man’s committed…if the storms come (and they’re coming, aren’t they?) with the Lord’s enabling, he’ll stand.

SHUSTER: You mentioned that when the mission was started it was about ninety-five percent from white churches’support.

DAWSON: Support, yeah.

SHUSTER: And then within a few years, it was about ninety-five percent from black churches.

DAWSON: Yeah, yeah. Ten years. About ten years, yeah….

SHUSTER: Ten years. Have the black churches continued to be supportive of the work?

DAWSON: That’s right, yeah. That’s why we can still support these missionaries that are there now, the evangelists. Hey, I don’t know where my letters are...I just think they’re really gifted, we just recently sent over there. You get what I mean? They’re appreciative. They really are. And they need our help. They need to know that we’re with them. And that’s the message that we want to get across to them, that we’re with you one-hundred percent. I think we’re gonna send some bicycles over there to them so they can move around in the bush, you know, to make their moves.

SHUSTER: Now has the mission also started churches in Liberia?

DAWSON: Yes, we have one church that is started, that has been there. Now I think there’s about six to eight more. I can give you more accurate word from Brother Thorpe. There’s about six to eight churches that have been started in the last couple years through the evangelism. They’re places like Samplataa [?]…you wouldn’t know the names of some of the places…and Guyataa.[?] Instead of saying town, they say taa. If it’s T-A-A, it means town. Yeah, Samplataa, its town.[?] Guyataa…when that T-A is on the end, it means a town. The town of Guya. Yeah, yeah.

SHUSTER: When was the first time that you went to Africa?

DAWSON: 1967.

SHUSTER: 1967.

DAWSON: And then the second time was ‘68 with this group.

SHUSTER: But you went for the African American Missionary Crusade in...

DAWSON: Afro-American….yeah.

SHUSTER: …’67. What do you remember on that trip?

DAWSON: Tremendous. [laughs] You know, it…it’s just exciting. My wife tell you...I guess she felt awful…they told me I...I kissed her and ran up the gangplank. I was anxious to get going, you know? Cause I mean if we’re going to eat, let’s eat. If we’re going to talk, let’s talk. If we’re going to work, let’s work. Whatever we’re going to do, let’s do it! You know, I can’t…. So, my sister she’s dead now, she said, “Charlie, say if you cry when you ran up….” But it wasn’t that…you know I’m not impetuous. But when we plan for a certain thing and when it’s time to blast off, guess what? You know, we’ll say, “10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1, no hold , let’s go!” [both laugh]. And then I’m ready to take off. But however….

SHUSTER: What was the purpose of your trip? Why were you going?

DAWSON: Well, they had some problems on the field, and many times, many our folk, back in those days were not too many black men going to Africa, you know. The first blacks that I saw going out to Africa was the ones that we went up to New York with. Or whether they were…sometimes they left from Pallsbury, they would go down on a freighter. But we would take them up to New York, and then later they started going over by plane. But we found that the boat was better than the plane, because at least they’re rested up when they get there. If you come back by boat…but now they’re discouraging that sort of thing. They said, “Come back on these freighters,” but they don’t encourage that anymore. But I was just excited about the fact that for Africa, I wanted to see what it was like, meet the people, knowing that was the place of nativity for the black man. That our home and roots were there, and how they received us. And both in West Africa and also in Liberia.

SHUSTER: So you traveled…you went to countries besides Liberia on this first trip?

DAWSON: Well, we were just there…but just there for layover, not to visit.

SHUSTER: Oh, okay.

DAWSON: When I was in Liberia, each time I’ve been to Liberia, it was just Liberia. I hadn’t been to Ghana or any of those places, but we’ve been to Liberia. And then when we went to East Africa, we’ve covered more than one country there, cause we went there to do a certain ministry, a thrust in evangelism that the missionaries themselves had been teaching the Word of God, and then the reapers came in, shall we say, to…. Like the word says, “One will sow, and another will water, but God gave the increase.” [I Corinthians 3:6] We’re just laborers together. No matter the way it comes up, that’s just the way it is. [laughs] Yeah.

SHUSTER: Now on your first trip, you mentioned that there were problems in the field that you were going over to work on?

DAWSON: Say this again?

SHUSTER: On this first trip, in ‘67, you were saying you were going over because there were some problems in the field?

DAWSON: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes.

SHUSTER: What kind of things were there?

DAWSON: Oh, some of the missionaries had some problems, you know. You know if you go out…. If you’re gonna start a business, we’ve gotta learn how to live one with another. Maybe one girl is energetic, and another girl is [pauses] not. Maybe you’re fast, I’m a [unclear], I like to get moving. You know, if you tell me ten o’clock, I’m ready about nine, eight-thirty. Or whatever, you know. You don’t have to wait. All you’ve got to do…when you call me yesterday, you said, “Can we sit down?” The same way, you know. But then when you called with additional confirmation. So I don’t have no need of being unready when you get here. You don’t have to get me out of bed, wait until I got to take a shave, or take a bath, you know. Do all that, and you’re ready when the time….Well, different missionaries come from different backgrounds, you know. You have a different background from Billy, and some of the other fellows, and so on. And so we have to make adjustments, and they’re not always easy to make.

SHUSTER: So you were going over to help reconcile some of the missionaries, and….?

DAWSON: That’s right. See what their problems were, and then we had one missionary that he was…well, we don’t want to hurt a brother. But there was just something that…that wasn’t ethical, and might call it immoral. Unethical, I guess that would be the word. And we didn’t get to see him at all. He knew we were coming, and so he scooted. Not for an argument, but for clarification. We’re not going over there to argue, to fight. You know, we’re not worldly, we’re committed. Brother Jackson was one of my first pastors when we went into the field that year. He was the first black evangelical pastor that I had ever met. Taught the word of God. We went out on the streets and went into the jail houses with him. Campbell’s Soup, all the during the war years ahead. We’re very aware of teaching and preaching the word of God, both men and women. The church was moving.

SHUSTER: With this first trip of yours to Liberia, what do you remember best of it? What stands out it your mind? Number 67

DAWSON: Well one of the things I think when the missionaries themselves that had been away from home for maybe five…. That was in ‘67, so Doddy [?], and Martha, and Beth [pauses] and Viola Rose, the one that died, they were all veteran missionaries. Viola was the youngest one, not in age but in seniority. I think she started early…forgot the exact year but she…but when they saw us, they were just happy. They couldn’t believe it. They were….

SHUSTER: They were expecting you?

DAWSON: Yeah, they were expecting us but… I don’t know whether you’ve ever been away from home and meet somebody. If you’d been in…in….say China somewhere. And you meet a fellow from your neighborhood, like maybe during the war years. Just something happens to you. You’re emotional, you know, with hugging and [unclear] and “I’m so glad to see you!” I could never forget that. And this one girl, Martha, [laughs] we’ve always…she’s a fine girl, she’s a fine girl. I mean a dedicated, committed…. And for her to kiss someone, I mean that was unheard of! [laughs] This was not real Martha, you know. She goes, “Brother Dawson I’m so glad to see you!” Then Viola Rose, all of them. Cause they knew we were coming, but when we got on the scene and they did everything in their power to make it convenience for us. We were back at… you know, it wouldn’t be like here. They got dirt floors, that they have now they have wooden floors, and we built houses and all this sort of thing.

SHUSTER: And this is at the orphanage, at the school?

DAWSON: What’d you say?

SHUSTER: This is at the orphanage?

DAWSON: Oh yeah, the orphanage. We had a nursery, we had a registered nurse there, Mrs. Trustee [?]. She graduated I think from Temple in nursing. She was a registered nurse, you know. So… but it was just good. And she was there, Mrs. Trustee [?] was there. But the matter of this other thing, we never got down to it. One brother in the sense he deserted the work. We never ever caught up to him. And maybe it’s best. But these things happen, when you’re dealing with people, you’re gonna have people problems. You get what I mean? I don’t know how its gonna work but when you’re dealing with people and they’re never the same, you’re gonna have people problems. We’re gonna have them until Jesus comes back again. [laughs] I expect it, you know what I mean? I’m not running from it, it’s…it’s just to be expected, even in the ministry.

SHUSTER: From...from your own experience on the board all these years, what do you think is important qualities for a missionary, as opposed to someone say who would be a pastor here in the States?

DAWSON: Alright. Well I think a missionary…I think it’s a special call, I really do. Because I’ve always felt as a young man that that was something that I would really enjoy, just going to the mission field. That’s always in the back of my mind. And I think its just…I don’t think…like when the Lord called Peter as an apostle to the Gentiles, as a representative, then he pulled Paul out as His representative to the…Peter to the Jews, right?


DAWSON: And then Paul to the Gentiles. But the first qualification of all should be that a person is born again, he has the necessary qualifications of, you know, proving it and so on….

SHUSTER: Of what?

DAWSON: Of…of his salvation, you know? He’s a qualified believer, and then I think secondly he ought to (I emphasize this a lot) be devoted and committed. And then I think as missionaries we need to learn how to work, and worship, and live with other folk. Cause missionaries have problems, just like any other people. When they come back they have to make certain adjustments, and…..

SHUSTER: What kind of adjustments?

DAWSON: Like, well, to our style of life. If you’ve been on the mission field ten years and you come back here, the pace is fast. I didn’t drive a car for about three years during the war. And when I got back on the boat it was almost frightening. And that was from ‘42 to ‘45. Well, what would it be like if you stayed off the streets today ten to fifteen years, and hit the Scudder Falls Express. My wife don’t even want to ride on it, let alone drive. She won’t drive in public. You get what I mean? See, see that sort of a thing. You have to make the adjustments. Now, we have a girl just back. And she’s kind of shy and retired because she’s been in Africa for ten years. That’s a long time. And she still didn’t want to come home. But we say, “You have to come home, you need to come home! You need the rest!” The work can go on without you. We don’t have a man on the field, but the Lord had raised up these eight Africans and the work is going on! And these men are dedicated, they’re committed. And so when you come home and then you need a good physical examination. Maybe you’ll go to a place like Clyde Narramore’s. We want our…that’s where we want our missionaries to go now. We talked to her about it Saturday.

SHUSTER: The Narramore Foundation?

DAWSON : In California. In Rosemead, California I think it is. And he’ll give them so much free time to stay there, maybe a month. And whatever the tab is, Afro can pick it up and that sort of thing. And so we have a lot of cultural shocks that you see there, you don’t see here. And all the crime that you don’t find there that you find here.

SHUSTER: Reverend Dawson, you were talking about some of the adjustments that missionaries made when they come back to America?

DAWSON: Yes. They...some had been away for…the missionary that came back two weeks ago, she hadn’t been stateside for about ten…ten years. And you kind of get out of the trend of things. And you need to make a lot of adjustments. Now she hasn’t driven a car for that long, in Philadelphia, and Chicago, and these other areas. And she just can’t just jump right on the road there. She may try but I think she has to do things in graduate stages, you know. And one of the things that we suggest strongly is that they just sort of isolate themselves for a while. You know, go in the home, be there, but no meetings. Because they’re been giving out for all these years. And I think they’re tired, personally. Yet they still want to give cause they’re devoted. But looking at it realistically the Lord will tell His disciples to come apart and rest awhile. And I think he knows more about the work than we do, don’t you?

SHUSTER: I think so.

DAWSON: I’d rather know from his point of view than mine. And then what happens is to show the wisdom of this, as soon as these missionaries get back, the churches want to call them up right away. “We want you in Chicago, and we have cause!” and in Pasadena as soon as she gets back.” She’s not going to Pasadena. Or “We want her here! We want her in Chicago and Cleveland.” She’s not going there right away. It’s her decision, but the board says that you need to just take some rest. You need to have a physical examination. And maybe not so much running about. I mean this Narramore, you know. You need to talk. You may have some hang-ups and you don’t even recognize it.


DAWSON: Well let’s face it, if you…whatever you need, may need dental work. You may need a lot of things but you’ve learned how to deprive yourself of a lot of things when you’re on the field. I go to Africa and come back, whatever money I have I always leave it there. Just money to get home, when I get to New York I have enough money to get home. Cause they have a need. Ties, and shirts, and underwears, whatever I don’t need. If they will accept it. Or books or pencils, cause they can’t run to the store. Maybe the store is forty miles away, twenty miles away. You know? And they’ve learned how to do without. Now what did we learn how to do without? We don’t deprive ourselves of anything. So when the missionaries come back they got to make all these adjustments. And I think they need maybe a month or two months rest before they take a meeting. I would strongly suggest that. And just make certain to up the par and spend time with the Lord. And then little by little, don’t start off in high gear, just maybe a meeting once or twice a month, something like that. And gradually kind of build up, make a normal adjustment. And I might say that from my athletic background. I don’t like to do things suddenly. If I’ve been away from something for a long time, I want to get mentally prepared, physically, psychological, any other way. And if not, you can get hurt.


DAWSON: You know? When I go into do something, I want to be at my very best in those three spheres. And I wouldn’t…I would like to see our missionaries do the same thing. And whether they like it or not, they’re just not going to make me a popular fellow I’m not trying to win any popularity contest. But I...I stress that most of the board, they see it the same way. Everyone was stressing that you take time for you...go to Dr. Narramore’s, that you just don’t accept any engagements. No matter how great the demand is they might want to see. But you have to do what’s best for yourself and no one else can do that but you.

SHUSTER: So most missionaries when they come back they want to take meetings right away?

DAWSON: The churches that stand behind us said, “We support you!” What difference does that make? It’s not their money it’s the Lord’s money. Okay? They don’t own me because I tell my church folk, “Certainly you give me something I want not and what not, but I’ve gotta get my orders from the Lord! I’ve listened to what you have to say, but if these things don’t agree with what the mind of the Lord is, I’m not going along with it. And in that sense, I’m my own man. I don’t mean I’m independent or that I won’t accept counsel at all, but I want to be able to think for myself. I want to be able to make the decisions for my family, you know, and what I think might be best for God’s people. Cause God’s the one who’s gonna hold me accountable. And I fear Him. He hits hard. [laughs] He’ll shake you up. [laughs] Yeah, yeah, He’ll shake you up.

SHUSTER: Well, Reverend Dawson, the Lord has certainly used you in all kind of ministries. It hits people in many different ways. I knew that we couldn’t possibly hope to cover all your ministry in ninety minutes…

DAWSON: Well, well, that’s alright. Yeah.

SHUSTER: But I wonder if you have any concluding remarks that you want to make for this interview?

DAWSON: Well, let me say this. I’m just grateful to the Lord for this opportunity. I can recall a number of years ago that I was in the Billy Graham office in Philadelphia, he was having a campaign, it might have been in the fifties sometime.

SHUSTER: ‘61, yeah.

DAWSON: By Charles Briggs, [actually, Charles Riggs] you know that name?

SHUSTER: Yeah, it’s ‘61 I think. ‘61.

DAWSON: Yeah. Well, however, they had wanted to give me…wanted me to give a testimony at that point, if I had been saved under Billy Graham’s campaign, you know. But I wasn’t. So you have to level. And after all these years, the Lord has given us an opportunity. You said it was ‘61?

SHUSTER: ‘61 was the crusade in Philadelphia.

DAWSON: Alright, well, now that’s twenty-seven years later. But how it pays to wait on the Lord. That’s just one observation. I’ve thought about this many, many times. The same fellow that started us off in the jail ministry took us over to meet Charlie Briggs and Henderson Belk (he’s an industrial, I think he had a big store or something in North Carolina there somewhere). We met a lot of other fellows, you know, and they were just excited about their testimony. But there was one thing that disqualified me. That I was saved in 1937. [laughs] But it was…because I don’t think Billy Graham was on the scene at that point, you know. And, however, I am grateful to the Lord for this. And then for just sharing some things that might be beneficial to someone else that might read this. And I…I just want my life to count for the Lord, and whatever contribution I could make to help, help the work of the Lord Jesus Christ, that’s what I’m out to do. No matter where it might be, I just told the Lord many, many years ago, I said, “Lord, I’m available.” I want the Lord to know that I’m His, lock, stock, and barrel. Everything that I have, everything, I’m not holding back on anything. Pocketbook, my Bible, the work that He’s called me to do, my family, everything at home, it all belongs to the Lord. While I live, and hopefully after I’m with the Lord. I won’t die. I don’t mean …I may…I may go to sleep. But the Bible doesn’t speak of the believer dying. He just falls asleep like Lazarus. And one day the Lord’s gonna stand up and shout and when He does, the dead in Christ, those who are asleep in the Lord will rise first. And those of us that remain alive will be caught up in the clouds, meet Him in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. And I just encourage you, if you love the Lord, be a devoted disciple and a follower of Christ. Be one who will give yourself to the study of the Word of God. Get the word in, let it in, the Bible says, “The entrance of Thy words giveth light.” [Psalm 119:130] And then after you have that word in, there’s something else that God wants you to do, commit it to memory. Commit it to memory. Have that word of God in your heart. So you have to admit it, commit it to memory, and another thought. We have to transmit it. God wants us to pass it along. I don’t want to have a reservoir of anything. I just want to pass it along. And the one who has revolutionized my life [becomes tearful/emotional], and loves me with an everlasting love, I just want Him to know that I love him to the best of my ability. Every day I say to the Lord, “Lord, what would you have me do? Lord, you call the shots.” I make plans, I always do, but subject to God’s approval. He’s number one in my life. And so, Brother Shuster, I just thank you for this opportunity of just…just sharing a word, and passing these thoughts on, and so on.


DAWSON: My life verse is 1 Corinthians 15:58, which says, “Therefore my beloved brethern, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord for as much as ye know that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.” And over in Philippians 1:6 it says, “And being confident of this very one thing, that He who has begun a good work in you, will perform it until the day of Christ.” And 2:12 says that it is God who worketh in us. So it’s not Dawson at all. It’s God who worketh in us, both to do and to will of His good pleasure. And how I praise God for His son.

SHUSTER: Well, I want to thank you again for being willing to be interviewed and this tape, of course, will become a part of the Archives. It will be used by people who are studying to become ministers and missionaries. It will help be part of their training as well.

DAWSON: Well, praise the Lord. Well, again, if it’s ongoing. I’m mindful that one day God’s going to call me home. It’s going to all wind up, but the testimony will be left behind. And I…I just live with these things in mind. I’m not afraid of living or dying, one way or the other. If God calls me today, everything’s in order. And if He wants me to preach and teach a little longer, I just want to serve him, that’s all I want. So we just thank you for this opportunity and we believe that God has just honored our testimony in life. That I firmly believe in. I believe that this is just a confirmation of what God has been doing. It just didn’t happen today, but we go back to 1942, ‘37 of these different men have had a part in my life: Bible School training, and then the ensuing ministries from that point up till now. And we’re just grateful. And just pray for me as we move along amongst people that we’ll always do the same thing. Share the Gospel. Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that He rose again on the third day according to the Scriptures, that He ascended into heaven, and that he ever liveth at the right hand of God the Father to make intercession for us according to the Scriptures. And then the big one is His imminent appearing. That’s the big one, that’s it. We’ll have to stop there.

SHUSTER: Just…just ask you one last question.


SHUSTER: What is the name of the man who took you over to the Graham crusade? It was the same one who was….

DAWSON: Russell Harrison Jr.

SHUSTER: Russell Harrison Jr.

DAWSON: Yeah. He was…he was quite a singer but I don’t know what happened to him. He’s not following the Lord. He… he… he loves the Lord but he’s in his shell. I call him once in a while. And he’s maybe spent fifty. And I think he was hurt. And some of us-not like myself, I guess. I’m like old rhino. [laughs]

SHUSTER: Tough skin.

DAWSON: Yeah. Or like a sponge ball or a tennis ball. The harder you bounce it on the ground, the higher up it goes, you know? Paul said none of these things move me. They beat him, he still preached. They tried to kill him he still preached. Whatever…they chase him out of town, you know, but he was always preaching the Word. And he could say to me, “For to me, to live is Christ.” [Philippians 1:21] And so I…I try to follow in the wake of men like that. These men were the same as we were, they was men. But they had intestinal fortitude. They were not quitters. And our Savior’s not a quitter either, right?


DAWSON: He said, “What thou doest, do quickly.” [John 13:27] I would appreciate your prayer for this young fellow, that the Lord might bring him back unto himself and that they would get on the move for the Lord. See sometimes the Enemy can get a jump on the believer. And the Word tells us that we’re not to be ignorant of his devices. “He walks about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” [I Peter 5:8] But God says, “Resist him, and he will flee. Resist him.” [James 4:7] He says, “Child, I’m gonna break in where you come at it and I’ll claim the victory in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and his blood. And he’ll be whipped not with a hook but hit with the book! [both laugh] That’s the only way we can defeat him, you know. It’s a battle. We’re in it, and we’re going to be in it until the day God calls us from labor to reward.


DAWSON: Amen, amen.

SHUSTER: Thank you again.

DAWSON: Okay thank you.


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