Billy Graham Center

Collection 288 - Vincent Crossett. T6 Transcript

This is a complete and accurate transcript of the tape of the oral history interview of Vincent Leroy Crossett (CN 288 T6) in the Archives of the Billy Graham Center. No spoken words have been omitted, except for any non-English phrases which could not be understood by the transcribers. Foreign terms which are not commonly understood appear in italics. In very few cases words were too unclear to be distinguished. If the transcriber was not completely sure of having gotten what the speaker said, "[?]" was inserted after the word or phrase in question. If the speech was inaudible or indistinguishable, "[unclear]" was inserted. Grunts and verbal hesitations such as "ah" or "um" were usually omitted. Place names in non-Western alphabets are spelled in the transcript in the old or new transliteration form according to how the speaker pronounced them. Thus, Peking is used instead of Beijing, because that is how the interviewee pronounced it. Chinese terms and phrases which could be understood were spelled as they were pronounced with some attempt made to identify the accepted transliterated form which corresponds to it. Readers should remember that this is a transcript of spoken English, which follows a different rhythm and rule than written English.

... Three dots indicate an interruption or break in the train of thought within the sentence on the part of the speaker.

.... Four dots indicate what the transcriber believes to be the end of an incomplete sentence.

( ) Words in parentheses are asides made by the speaker.

[ ] Words in brackets are comments by the transcriber.

This transcript was made by Arnila Santoso and Paul Ericksen was completed in January 2003.

Collection 288, T6. Interview of Vincent Leroy Crossett by Paul A. Ericksen, May 30, 1986.

ERICKSEN: We were talking about what kind of theologians the Chinese were. What kind of impact did Watchman Nee's Little Flock and his teaching have on the Christians that you were working with?

CROSSETT: Well, in the beginning wherever he went there was a church split. They just split wide open. Those that followed him and those that were...were against him, because Dr. Shing...Mr. Shing, this evangelist has said, "I'll wait till he has changed three times, changed his thinking three times before I'll...I'll put any importance it," he said. But in the firs...first, you know, he was dead against marriage, Watchman Nee was, and then he wanted to get married so he changes...said, "There." [?]. There were a couple times that he changed quite radically, and then...and.... But it did cause a lot of division, dissension. Later on it came to be more...more received, I think, especially...especially over here, because you've got more of the mature man by then. But it caused a lot of church splits and a lot of dissension.

ERICKSEN: Any that you saw in the churches you were working in?

CROSSETT: A little bit of the influence there, yes, but it was in the bigger churches. Like in Fowyang and others where Pastor...Pastor Wu was...was working. But it...we got the influence, yes. These people would come through and then they would sort of cause a little contention, but it didn't make a major problem where we were. We just heard of it in other...


CROSSETT: ...other places.

ERICKSEN: How would you characterize the strength of the Chinese church that you saw?

CROSSETT: Some of them were quite strong. Some of them were very...very...much more weak. And the ones we were working with, apart from Hoqiu (Hoqiu, I think, was quite...quite established and very well), but the...several of them.... Of course, we were in a very...a very encouraging area. This was a mass movement that sort of swe...swept through north Anhui, and Bert Kane [CIM missionary J. Herbert Kane] and Pastor Wu were right in the center of the thing over there. It was very encouraging. But the was interesting, to see that when the...when the Japanese were coming, through how many of the...of the could tell that purified the church. So that the...the rice Christians, the "hangers on," they.... The report got out, "Oh, they're going to kill all the Christians. Anybody has a Bible, they're going to...going to destroy it. You're going're...they'll get...find the Bible and they'll kill you and everything." Rumors like that. And you could see people leaving the church and had...getting rid of their Bibles and their hymn books. Any sign of...that was quite a bit of that. And that...that purified the church. Some...some [laughs] people they said, "I don't care. Give me your Bibles and hymn books. I'll take them," and...and they...they didn't care whether they got killed or not. But...and that, it sort of purified the church. That's when the Japanese came and the Japanese weren't that hard on Christians. But when the Communists came it was a little different. But by that time the church had been partially purified, and there was.... But some of those Christians, many of the Christians in Hoqiu that were in that church, they were just outright slaughtered by the Japanese...I mean by the Communists, not Japanese. And...and it really cleansed the church. But I think the church...well as you know since, the church has been...was...there was a rock foundation there. And that...the Lord got rid of the missionaries and then His Spirit worked right there. It was tremendous. The work of the missionaries was not in vain, but it still was a clinging church. I mean, as a whole it was...the church was dependent on...on...on the foreign influence. Not...not so much in the the CIM. Not so much. They...they were more independent right along, but church generally was that way.

ERICKSEN: Did you have contact with mission...missionaries from other boards?

CROSSETT: Not much. We were set out in the areas that were.... When we...the...Miss Jones in...we...we had contact with them a little bit. We knew them before, and then that town was the...that was the...the forward [pauses]...forward...head...front line of the...of the Japanese when they came in. They...they...and they...they took that over before America got in the war, and we'd been over there, and seen them. That was just twenty miles away on the out...other side of Zhengyangguang. And then when they were taken over, those missionaries were put in house arrest right away. There's no possibility of contact. So arrangement was made for...see our...Zhengyangguang and several churches.... Zhengyangguang was our church but there were several of the Presbyterian churches all around in that area. And so they made an agreement with us that we would do the baptizing and serve communion and so forth in their churches. Sort of a mutual arrangement. They...they could use our building for the people that were outside the city, you know. They...they had their services in our building and we...and other meetings. And then...then they...I'd...I'd be the official pastor because they had evangelists, but they didn't have ordained pastors, that...that's the Presbyterian church. And so we worked very well together. But there were only three missionaries there, a husband and his wife and Miss Jones, and they were under house arrest. And so they could do work, and they...but...but other missionaries we didn't come in contact with too much. [Mr. & Mrs. H.] Costeruses earlier were down in Lu'an sixty miles south of us. And of course the Kanes and...with our own mission that the...the Steeds, it was different times...


CROSSETT: ...not all the same time.

ERICKSEN: What about Catholic workers?

CROSSETT: Well, [pauses], of course, the border of Henan, the missionaries there worked together with the Catholic workers on relief work, on relief work. And some couldn't, they couldn't do it, but on relief work we did work together and had all the.... But later on we broke with them because the Catholics were...they had different philosophy from us as far as...there in Hoqiu...I mean Huangchuan (over where...where Virginia [oldest of the two Crossett daughters] was born) working together with them, but the Catholic people thought, "Well, now the...the Japanese are...are fleeing and the Chinese are not here, we're going to just make it. We're going to get wealthy now, and just take the grain and take all...the...everything just looted [?] around." They were the ones that got killed, and we didn't get bothered at all. We...we had a big refugee camp over there. Miss Elliot, Ruth Elliot was...was over there and, of course, that...we...we weren't in that. That was completely segregated because the Japanese were trying...they couldn't even go out in the street. But the...they didn't bother us. The Japanese didn't bother us, but...but several of the Catholics were killed because of the...the [unclear]. Of course, that's out of our immediate experience. But [pauses] no, we didn't...we didn't have much contact with missionaries, apart from our own mission, and then that was just could count on one hand almost. Except the conferences once a year, but during the war no, no conferences.

ERICKSEN: Did you see changes the mission (CIM), in the course of your years there in China?

CROSSETT: I didn't notice. The same policies as far as I could observe. There was change.

ERICKSEN: Okay. [pauses] As you look back on your career in China is there anything you wished you would have done differently?

CROSSETT: Alot. Alot, yes. [laughs] I'd have...I'd have got a better grasp of the language for one thing. And...and...and I would I can see what...where I should have concentrated a little more. Of course, when we first went out there, we were right in a new place. You know, we were told "no Christians in that place at all." However it had an advantage because there...or there were churches in the...from twenty to thirty miles away. There were churches around. Those people come through sometime and we'd make use of their influence...I mean of their...their ability to speak and so forth. And we'd...we'd use them all we could. So it wasn't just like going into a place where there are no Christians and no influence all around. But yes, I would have...I would concentrate more on the language. And I think I'd...I'd have a little better program training of leaders too. It was sort of new and we just did what we saw was important right now. Had a little [laughs] Bethel Church [Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Wheaton] here. They've got a program that you're...they're hit with young people and a lot of...a lot of Sunday school, everything else there. It's a...sort of a long term plan that they''s not just...we...we took things as they came [laughs].

ERICKSEN: Then after you came back.... You came back initially on your furlough, is that right?

CROSSETT: Yes, we came back on our furlough. You mean in 1947?


CROSSETT: Yes. And then we enrolled in Wheaton Graduate School, and toward the end of our furlough, we were thinking about it, but we weren't decided, and finally we...we made up our mind and we...we resigned from the mission because of the girls [their daughters]. And...and then...then that was the whole Hawaii experience in between there. But we didn't...we didn't alienate ourselves from the mission except for the girls. I mean, [coughs] our hearts were still there and so when it comes to their getting out of college, naturally they didn't need us anymore, [I] just resigned from the church and went out again, because that's where our...our work was. That's where we felt called and...but this was a good...a good intermission. I felt we...when we resigned I thought maybe, well, get into Chinese work in New York or some place, you know, and...and then this invitation from the church out there came, and I knew that there were many Chinese. We knew where the Chinese lived in Hawaii. And so we just...I just accepted that call to the church, which didn't last too long. Well, last one year. But then...then the [pauses]...the....

ERICKSEN: Now when did you go to the church in Hawaii? 19....

CROSSETT: We went out there 1948, after we got...back to that church. That was Kaimuki Community Church, and I only stayed there one year.

ERICKSEN: Oh, I see.

CROSSETT: They had a dictator it, and you can't work with a dictator and get anything done [Ericksen laughs], unless you just say yes all the time. And...but that church had divided three times already, and the first time...well no, it...the third time was when I left, people...people left the church. But the first time people went out and they started a prayer meeting and they were carrying on this prayer meeting for two or three years there. And then the next time was when the next pastor (the regional founding pastor was there)...when he left, it...they...they split. And then the next pastor, when he left they split. And then they called me and when I left, the people came. I didn't try to.... But...but when...when I was told I wasn't wanted anymore, then this group that's meeting over here, which were all the [laughs] biggest part of the original church, they said, "Would you come over and speak to us. We...we have prayer meeting on Thursday night." And so I had my final prayer meeting on the...the church on Wednesday night and Thursday night, they...they invited me over there and they wanted to know the situation. And then in a few days they asked if I would take the leadership of that group. I said, "Yes, but I won't meet here." Cause they...see the original man bought the house. Cross was his name [laughs]. He bought the house and he...he renovated it and made the...and that was where the church was for...for many years. And so this...this dictator, he got in when Cross left. He [Cross] appointed leaders and this dictator was one of them, and he just sort of took over, and got the money and everything, and he bought another...another big home, which they made the church. And so the other group was meeting about two blocks away. And here I said, "We...we're not going to run competition." And so we were living about a mile away, and I said, "Come and meet in our home to start with." So we had worship service and Sunday school in our home. Well, Sunday school was just taking care of the kids while we were in the worship service. And then we found a church building...I mean, not a church building. We found a...we got permission to hold services in a school cafetorium [a large room, usually in an educational institution, that serves both as a cafeteria and as an auditorium, Yahoo! Reference: American Heritage Dictionary] for six months. And were looking around for a place all during that time. And finally we went down into this Kapalua area and this old German woman said, "Well, you...." We went around visiting and she just brought out a dollar and gave it to us, you know, and she thought we were just out to...out to...for money. And we said, "No, we don't want your money. But we would like to find a place to meet if we could." She had a place. It was this old cow barn. And she said, "I'll rent half of it to you for twenty-five dollars a month." And half of it was already out to somebody else. And had hardly been used. It was a cow barn, used as a pig pen, used as a horse stable. And then it was [pauses] the...the U.S. Services got it. It was USO [United Service Organization] for a while. They...they divided it and made a sort of a theater in one end. And she said, "I'll let...." Then...then it was [unclear]. Oh, the Salvation Army was in there for a while. Anyway we...we rented that. And then a little later she said, "If you'll get these other people out at the other end I'll rent it, the whole thing to you, for...for fifty dollars a month," and it's twenty [pauses]...I think it was forty feet wide and a hundred and two feet long. Great big old building, condemned by the city, but we went in there. We...we met there for twelve years in our church. And by that time I left and they...right away they built a new church. They got in under the C&MA [Christian and Missionary Alliance]. But it was an ideal place. Fourteen thousand people in the Kapalua area, one high Episcopal church in one end, and nothing else. We were in the other end, and, boy, could we build up. It wasn't long until we had a Sunday school of four hundred [laughs]. It was really great, ideal just like Hoqiu was ideal when we went in there.

ERICKSEN: What was the makeup of the congregation?

CROSSETT: Cross section of the population. A third of the people in Hawaii are Japanese. And we had that percentage in our church. And a third of the people were Caucasian, and a third others, a big part of it Chinese. Well, we didn't have very many Caucasians. We didn't...we weren't out for the...for the foreigners, for the...for the Caucasians. But most of our...most of our leadership was Chinese. But now, of course, it's spread over Chi...Chinese, Japanese. It's...but it was just almost a cross section of the...except for the Caucasians. We didn't go out for servicemen. We didn't go out for tourists. You can't build a church on them. They're...they're turning over all the time. But we didn't turn them down. We welcomed them when they came. But we were in a residential area, and we didn't come in direct contact with those very much.

ERICKSEN: What was the attitude of the Chinese Christians toward the Japanese Christians? No problem?

CROSSETT: No problem, no problem. No, in Hawaii it's [laughs] more of a melting pot than America is. [laughs] And...and in a marriage too. The Caucasians and...and the...the Orientals married. Everybody's accepted there.

ERICKSEN: So there was no residual feeling from the war [World War II]?

CROSSETT: No, no. You see, there's nothing. The Japanese proved themselves real Americans there. You see, they...they thought that the Japanese would all be...would all be against us and so forth. But there were many reports of...of spying and many reports of...of...of faithfulness. They searched them all out and they didn't find one single person that was against the States that...that lived in Hawaii, tho...of those...those reports that were given. The Japanese had to send spies over from Japan in order to get anyone [laughs] working with them. And one of the most...most [pauses] valiant groups, divisions, I don't know what they call them, was...was the...the Japanese division [probably referring to the 100th Infantry Battalion, largely made of Nisei [native-born citizen of the United States or Canada whose parents were Japanese immigrants] from Hawaii] from...from Hawaii. They were sent to Europe to fight. They weren't sent against their own people. But they really [laughs] decorated themselves very...I mean, they...they were decorated very highly, and everybody, they're...they're loyal. So there's no...there was no feeling between Japanese and Chinese like that there, and very little if there was any at all. We didn't see any.

ERICKSEN: Let's go back to Wheaton to the Grad School for just a minute. How had Wheaton changed since you had graduated?

CROSSETT: Well, it just increased in size several...severalfold as far as buildings and everything was concerned. It was, of course, now it's increased far more. But in...then had increased quite a...quite a bit. And of course, when we first came we had a enrollment of (what is it?) four hundred, four hundred, five hundred, six hundred, total of every...everything. And, of course, it kept growing from then so it was really bigger. [pauses] Let me see, in '47 it was [pauses].... I've forgotten was [J. Oliver, Jr.] Buswell [Wheaton College's third president] still here then? I don't think so. He came the year I came in 1926 and...and I don't know when he left. But Buswell or [V. Raymond] Edman [Wheaton College's fourth president], my memory doesn't last that long. [pauses] I think Bus....

ERICKSEN: Edman was already here in 1941.

CROSSETT: He was already here, yeah. Yeah. Yes. It had grown and, of course, sports and everything had grown along with it. And of course, we had was and we didn't...I don't think then we had the library [Buswell Memorial Library] that we have now. The library was...I can't remember. Was it in Fischer Chapel? Fischer Chapel was operating when we were here, and then it's been all changed since then [laughs]. But it was the library for once.

ERICKSEN: Where was the Grad School meeting?

CROSSETT: The Grad School was meeting in the what is still, I guess, the...the...[pauses] the first room over there...that big...big buil...what is that building now over there?

ERICKSEN: Oh, I can't think of the name if it. It's on the corner of Irving and...

CROSSETT: Yeah, yeah, Irving and the one that goes this way.

ERICKSEN: ...probably the dining hall area or the other side of the MSC [Memorial Student Center].

CROSSETT: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's where we were meeting. So that we would....

ERICKSEN: How many students were there in the Grad School?

CROSSETT: I don't know, I don't know. Classes I had were quite normal size.

ERICKSEN: Do your remember the faculty that you had?

CROSSETT: Well, the LeBars [Lois and Mary] and Miss (what's her name?]...Miss [pauses]...oh, the ones that they've got a named after now, or a building or something. Lawson and her sister. The LeBars. Oh, the...the head of the Christian Education department was Dr. [Rebecca Russell] Price. And all I can think of is Schilbloom. It's not Schilbloom [possibly Vivienne Blomquist or Norma Bloomquist], this other girl that was in the Ed...Christian Education department. That's where I got degree was in Christian Education.

ERICKSEN: How did you decide to work in that program?

CROSSETT: Well, it's [laughs, coughs] interesting. I wouldn't say it's very, very complementary or anything. You see, I had been to Whea...been to Wheaton and I'd been to Westminster [Seminary], and I came here and I wanted to get...get graduate work. I wanted to get into Christian Education. And...and I talked to Dr. [Merrill] Tenney about the course I should have. He said, "Well, we don't have anything to offer you." And...and [pauses] of course, Christian Education was a two year course, and I wanted to do it in a year. He said, "Well, with your...with your seminary work, you don't have to do any of the Bible, so you can make it in a year." So I...I settled on that. I didn't...I wanted to get into Christian Education and so it worked out just that...that way. I wanted to get another degree. When I graduated from Westminster that was a...that was a...that was still a bachelor's degree, who until...until a certain time, until they got...and then...then it was changed into...into a masters. And then I....I got the Christian Education masters here. That's what I wanted and that's what finally worked out, and I got a two year course in one year, because of the credits from seminary. But the other courses, they said that you had them already [laughs], so I didn't need to....

ERICKSEN: Yeah, well, that's [pauses] nice.

CROSSETT: And that set me in good when I...when we went to Taiwan. Degrees count for a lot whether they're worth anything or not. They count for a lot out there. And I had these two master degrees the asked me to teach, and Margaret too. See Margaret and I, we both taught in this Yu-Shan Theological Institute, it was then. Now it's a...I think it's called Seminary. Anyway, they...they like degrees. Degrees count on the mission field whether you can produce or not. You [laughs]...of course, if you can't produce, you sort of get...eventually get turned down, but...but they...they really count. They look up to them.

ERICKSEN: Now did Mrs. Crossett study in the Grad School too?

CROSSETT: Yes. But she just took [pauses]...not enough. She wasn't aiming at a degree because she knew that with the children, she couldn't...


CROSSETT: ...couldn't finish it. Yeah, she studied. She took a course too, and of course she helped me out with my, my thesis too. She was...did most of the typing and everything.

ERICKSEN: So what did you do your thesis on?

CROSSETT: It was...well, what you'd call para....parachurch groups now. The...the in...interrelationships between these parachurch groups and the church and what contribution they made to each other.

ERICKSEN: Where there things that you had learned in your experience in China, lessons that you had been able to use and apply in your work in Honolulu?

CROSSETT: In Honolulu?

ERICKSEN: Or rather...?

CROSSETT: In Honolulu? Yes.


CROSSETT: Yes, because we...we knew the Chinese. And I for a while they put me on the radio with a Mandarin...Mandarin program. And then of course, knowing the Chinese, it'''s fun to work with Chinese, I...I feel it is. And that helped us out in the be...starting of the church there very much. Of course, many...most of those original ones that came out from that original church, they...they left in a few years. They didn't stay with us too long. Some of them went...we had about fourteen Caucasians in the church. And they just said, "Haole [Hawaiian term for Caucasians] church. It's's's a white church." Now they pulled out, when actually we had less than twenty percent of them even at the height. And, of course, they're always turning over and leaving, and...but anyway, they were Hawaiian, most of those were Hawaiian. They said, "We don't want to be in a white church." And...but some of them...some of them pulled out because of ties with other churches. They had been going to other churches in the meantime, and then they came with us for a while and then left. So that we built up. Much of it was new. Some of them, though, started from the very beginning, like the Changs. They were charter members of our church. They were at the other church. They're charter members. They're still there. They're just staunch loyal people. Of course, Gordon [last name unknown], he was saved under our ministry and Youth For Christ. We...I counseled him first when he went forward at Youth For Christ. Well, he went forward because I influenced him to go forward. And then...then he came and be...he's...he's a staunch member, treasurer of the church for all these years. Very very fine Christian, so it's.... And...but his parents (not his parents, her parents) were...they came over and they're right straight through. Now they're way up in their nineties and still there, but not very well. Dorothy Jean [last name unknown] has been the organist from the time the church started. Still is. Directs the choir and everything. And it''s nice to see those that are steady, that go right straight through, happy. Yeah, we sent out some missionaries. We sent out...I mean, some of our young people became missionaries. They are now. The church was very...but it was an ideal situation where we started. The Lord put is into a very favorable place there.

ERICKSEN: What kind of weaknesses did the church struggle with?

CROSSETT: Lack of money, because you get the Orientals in. The children...they let their children come, and some [unclear] program, but then, especially the Japanese, when they get to be about eighteen, their parents say, "Okay, you've played around long enough. Now we're going to get down to business and be a Buddhist church." Some of them were so established then that [laughs] they wouldn't...wouldn't go along. Boy, that caused a lot of problems. And we could get the kids but we couldn't get to the adults. They were much more conservative and much more tied with the old faith. But gradually these kids...young people have won their parents over, so that many of the adults in the church now.... Well, these kids have grown up and they've married each other. Of course, we went there in '48, we left in '62, and they've had time to grow up. A lot of the kids that were born in the church are some of the leaders now. It' was very encouraging, because it was an ideal situation for starting a church, with just the whole fourteen thousand people, mostly own their own homes, they had children, and what rented they were permanent renders, you know, I mean. And the kids, oh, we could get all the kids we wanted. We couldn't have a contest of invited members because we didn't [laughs] have a place. We had Sunday school classes underneath the trees out in the yard, every...everyplace, all around. When it rained it sort of made a problem, but [laughs] it didn't rain too much. Anyway, and then of course, we had [clears throat] these young people came to be leaders, we had camps, and Pioneer Girls and Christian Service Brigade, and we had a regular running Sunday school teacher training class going all the time. Twenty-seven...twenty-seven regular teachers, and then a training class for the young people coming up. We had an excellent superintendent. She was Caucasian. No, she was half and half. She was half Hawaiian and half Caucasian, and, boy, but she was committed. She...she taught the teacher training class. But it was...the Lord really blessed us there. It was wonderful.

ERICKSEN: You said there were a lot of problems when some of the...the Japanese young people became of age where they were expected to....

CROSSETT: Well, the parents insisted on their going back and many of them refused. And of course, that causes...sometimes they'd almost be disowned when they had that problem. And then a big event in the Japanese Buddhist church is what they call the Bon Dance. Now, I don't know what that means, but in the fall they have this dance, and all the young people, everybody wants to go to this. It's sort of a family [pauses]...not a barn dance, but (what do you call...?) [coughs].

ERICKSEN: Square dance?

CROSSETT: Square dance, something like that. And, boy, that attracts the Chinese...Japanese young people very very much. And so that was a big test. But it wasn't long...I mean, eventually, the Christians saw the inconsistencies of it and eventually the parents sort of saw the wisdom of Christianity too, and then many of the parents came in late. And that's after we left. Some did while we were there, but not enough to really financially support the whole thing. And we had denomination or anything. It had to be right from the local group, and the Lord blessed us there. Gradually we got...picked up more adults, and it became more...much easier financially. Of course, when they got the big church, then that was a drawing card too. Although that old cowbarn as a church, that drew some people in. One of the most zealous persons there Gladys Kiota [sp?], she was saved in that barn. She...she said that she would never go to church. Her two brothers were fine, they were Moody graduates and everything, and yet she would...they'd been praying for her for ten years. Well, we were praying for her, and she was a fine girl, woman, married, she had a son. And she said, "All people go to church for is to show off their clothes." And she...she was a beautician and a top notch one, and she had all kinds of clothes of her own and shoes and everything, and...and she'd walked past our church one time and she said, "They wouldn't go there to show off their clothes." So she came on Easter Sunday, and she was saved and, boy, she was saved. She did away with every...nothing but Christian magazines in her shop, and she was reading the Bible very much, and the Seventh Day Adventists came to talk to her and she compared what they taught with the Bible and she said, "No, that's not right." [laughs] She wouldn't have come anymore. She...she...until this day. There's a church or two started on her converts on the other side of the island, and it's.... She was a thrill to have. And she left, went to the big Japanese church later on. I think there's a little...I don't know. Anyway for some reason she left us, but still very loyal, of of our best friends out there. But the...the adults gradually came, but they were still strong Buddhists in the beginning. They were broke into that. And you can...we could see where in Japan it would be very very difficult, discouraging.

ERICKSEN: Well I have no more questions. Is there anything else you'd like to say about your church in Hawaii before we conclude?

CROSSETT: Well, if anybody's going there, go to the Kapahulu Bible Church. [laughs] Kapahulu, that is the name of the feathered cape that only kings can wear. They have it in the Bishop Museum out there. You get very close to it, the...the alarms start going off. But it takes thousands of birds just to get the feathers for that, but only the king can wear Kapahulu. And that's the name of that area there, and we named it Kapahulu Bible Church. I thought it was fine for the Christians, the white robe of righteousness. I thought it was very very fitting, but...and it is. It's right near Diamondhead, and it's...if anyone goes there go visit. [laughs] Name our...mention our name, and you'll have a welcome right away. [laughs]

ERICKSEN: Well, thank you.

CROSSETT: No, thank you.


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