Billy Graham Center


Archives

 

Collection 534 – Marguerite Elizabeth (Goodner) Owen. T2 Transcript

 

 

This is a complete and accurate transcript of the tape of the oral history interview of Marguerite Elizabeth (Goodner) Owen (CN 534, T2) in the Archives of the Billy Graham Center.  No spoken words have been omitted, except for any non-English phrases which could not be understood by the transcribers.  Foreign terms which are not commonly understood appear in italics.  In very few cases words were too unclear to be distinguished.  If the transcriber was not completely sure of having gotten what the speaker said, "[?]" was inserted after the word or phrase in question.  If the speech was inaudible or indistinguishable, "[unclear]" was inserted.  Grunts and verbal hesitations such as "ah" or "um" were usually omitted.  The transcribers have not attempted to phonetically replicate English dialects but have instead entered the standard English word the speaker was expressing.

 

Chinese place names are spelled in the transcript in the old or new transliteration form according to how the speaker pronounced them. Thus, "Peking" is used instead of "Beijing," if that is how the interviewee pronounced it. Chinese terms and phrases which would be understood were spelled as they were pronounced with some attempt made to identify the accepted transliteration form to which it corresponds.

 

Readers should remember that this is a transcript of spoken English, which follows a different rhythm and rule than written English.

 

  ...       Three dots indicate an interruption or break in the train of thought within the sentence on the part of the speaker.

 

  ....      Four dots indicate what the transcriber believes to be the end of an incomplete sentence.

 

 (  )       Words in parentheses are asides made by the speaker.

 

 [ ]        Words in brackets are comments by the transcriber.

 

This transcript, made by Noel Collins and Bob Shuster, was completed in May 2007.

 



 

 

Collection 534, T2    Interview of Marguerite Owen by Bob Shuster, June 6, 1997.

 

 

OWEN: ...our play and I was in two of his.

 

SHUSTER: What was his name?

 

OWEN: Bittikofer, he is...he was huge. The thing is someone used to say you could always tell who Bittikoffer directing, no one directed like he did [laughs].

 

SHUSTER: What made him such a good teacher?

 

OWEN: One thing is he was insistent on per...insisting on perfection, insisting on rightness, I mean, any teacher who will call the best out of you and not let you get away with stuff. In other words, when I was accompanying some of his singers and I made a mistake, he said, “Did you notice that Ms. Goodner missed that?”  Boy, you don’t miss it again. And also, he was...he was alive, very much alive and he made you feel the music you were singing.  I sang in the choral group too at the same time. Then also, because I had Greek in college, they let me take New Testament Greek but I must confess that the only reason I took New Testament Greek was because (I was the only woman in the class) because in that class was a young man named Harry Owen.  That’s where I met Harry.

 

SHUSTER: That’s the first time...well, you didn’t take the class for him if you met him in the class.

 

OWEN: Well, no,  I had met him before but he was in the class. My second semester I took it and we wrote notes to each other, addressing, and I was “presbuteros ed metra adelphos mou”- little sister and older brother and all. But, we...that’s where we...we...we went together, then we were separated and then we met again in China. And when we met in Shanghai....  Basically the men...you know the Chi...CIM was very careful to keep the men and women....and the men would stay...

 

SHUSTER: Very careful to keep the men and women...?

 


OWEN: Separate. So that they wouldn’t have quick romances...the, the men sailed for Vancouver on October the 7th. And we sailed for [unclear] on October the 4th.  But our ships met in Yokohama and Shanghai [coughs, clears throat] and so we saw the men and when we both got to Shanghai, Harry said, “Now this is guidance, here we are both of us in the same mission, both of us here.”   I said, “No, you’re British, reserved.  I’m just....uninhibited American.  It won’t do it, won’t do it [Shuster chuckles] and said no.”  He said, “But can we write?”   I said, “Oh sure, but don’t write about love just write.”  So, we were good friends and I did like him a whole lot. As a matter of fact, I think I loved him more than I knew. But I knew that we had to be refined more by the Lord before our personalities would not clash. But, after three years he wrote and said, “I want you to know I feel the same way and it’s not propinquity and it’s not fascination but I think you should at least pray about it. And then what really ticked me off, he signed it ‘respectfully yours’”. [laughs] Oh he was...he was a dear. So we started corresponding thinking we’d be...in a couple of years we’d be together but then the Japanese war entered and we couldn’t get together for a long time. Finally we got together but we didn’t become engaged until we saw each other, we hadn’t seen each other for six years and we’d only really been together that one year. Although we corresponded, we really knew each other but we...it didn’t take long. I got there the first day, we were engaged the second day [chuckles]

 

SHUSTER: How did you, do you remember the first time you met at Moody?

 

OWEN: The first time I met him?

 

SHUSTER: Uh-huh.

 

OWEN: Oh yes, it was at a prayer meeting.

 

SHUSTER: How did that....?

 

OWEN: I’d seen him before that but I hadn’t no...Well, I met him that night for sure but the first time I noticed him there was a group of CIM prospective missionaries that went out every night on the El [the elevated train], went out to Dr. Isaac Page’s home and we had a prayer meeting there every first Monday...every Mon...yeah, every Monday, every Monday night.  And the first night I went with...I took a whole bunch of California kids with me ‘cause they weren’t going to China but they didn’t have a place to go and they went. I saw this man just sitting over reading a book, paying no attention to anybody. I thought, “Oh you know, he’s stuffy,” and he thought I was the most ridiculous person he ever saw.  Of course, four women vivacity.  But that night at the prayer meeting I was sitting there with my eyes closed and somebody just started praying just who....  I opened my eyes and it was Harry. I first really noticed him praying the first time and it was several weeks before we really talked again.

 

SHUSTER: What was it that...what was it that got your attention?

 

OWEN: That first, that’s what got my attention.

 

SHUSTER: That he was praying?

 

OWEN: That he was praying. It was he...he has a wonderful voice and he had a real gift of speaking and praying both.  And I was impressed and he didn’t pa... he didn’t talk to me all the way home, you know this ...we just...and I was with my gang anyway. But, I notice him several times, he was...of course, he was a..a third year or second year man and he was, you’re on duty ushering people or managing things and he noticed me, he told me afterwards, that he thought I was the most flibberty student....

                                                                       

SHUSTER: That you were the most what?

OWEN: Flibberty gibberty. I don’t think I was but he thought I was, you know,  too flip.

 

SHUSTER: Too energetic?

 

OWEN: Yeah and all that. And, but he...I noticed his demeanor was always so [pauses] special. He...he was...he was not...I...you never saw him...he never slept.

 

SHUSTER: Like your grandmother.

 

OWEN: Right, right, right.  He was...I mean,  he was not that resilient. But he was somebody you noticed and I noticed him and then we...then one, just about a month after I first noticed him, this China group had a picnic, up on the...way up on the El to another place, and he was there and of course I was there and a whole bunch of others. But there was...I had to go back for work and he had to go back for something else and we was the only two that had to go back early.  So we had this long El ride together and we got acquainted and we found a mutual love in poetry. Very much so. And, the...in fact I have,  not that original book that I took with me but one that  I gave him (mine was lost in the bombing).  And also both of us had other attachments.  I had gone with one young man for six years.

 

SHUSTER: In California.

 

OWEN: In California, who became later my brother-in-law. [laughs] Dr. Clyde Kennedy...but he was in...but we were without realizing, we were growing apart.  And he was, had an attachment to a girl in Montreal. But she...the feel [unclear]....

 

SHUSTER: Harry Owen had an attachment....

 

OWEN: Harry Owen, in Montreal. And....

 

SHUSTER: Which is where he had come from?

 

OWEN: Where he came, yes...he’s...he was born in England but he grew up in Montreal and very British, really. Although as he grew older and he’d been in Moody so long, when he was with a bunch of Americans he was British and when he was with a bunch of Britishers, he was American [laughs].  But, anyway, so the Lord endeth all things and I thank the Lord for it. We had 46 years and 3 lovely children and so my whole life has been just full of joy. I mean I can remember a few bad moments here and there and I can remember some sorrows and I can remember some difficulties but they don’t seem important.

 

 

SHUSTER:  You had grown up, of course, with a large family and a very close family and you’d always lived with your family.  Gone to school and...

 

OWEN: Uh-huh.

SHUSTER: ...stayed at home. What was it like at this point, going so far away and going to school at Moody?

 

OWEN: I didn’t find it bad at all. I mean, of course, I’m so gregarious.  I mean...I mean here...I mean I...I don’t...I’ve never felt at all that I missed it. I mean I’m sorry I have to stay up here...but I’ve got more people...

 

SHUSTER: You mean here in Lancaster [Pennsylvania, at the OMF retirement cnter], right now, yeah...

 

OWEN: Yes, then everywhere I’ve gone. I mean I’ve moved so many times and always I have some new groups that’s why my correspondence is so terrible. I have written, I have in my letter book a thousand entries since I came...

 

SHUSTER: Oh my.

 

OWEN: ...in 1994 at the end of last....  There were 750 at the end of the first year and it’s been more than 300 since then. But you see everywhere I went I made friends and I want to keep up with them. Every time you leave, you make some more. And so, when I went to Moody, well, I had of course my friend Rita that went with me....

 

SHUSTER: Uh huh.

 

OWEN:   That was right away. And also I had the China Inland Mission people that I was interested in, I got to know them right away and I made some friends. As a matter of fact I just wrote to one yesterday, Esther Hamilton, Mrs.  John Hamilton, she went to the Philippines as a missionary. And she’s also widowed, she’s in Christ Home Retirement Home, Christ Church Retirement Home in Warminster [Pennsylvania].

 

SHUSTER: Oh, Christ Home, yeah.

 

OWEN: Christ home in Warminster.  And we’ve, we’ve kept up all this time and she....then I met another one who is Woodworth who went to the Philippines also. She’s with the Lord. And we kept up until she died. And then I made a friend in Canada, a Lottie Baer.  Who did she become later? She’s married. And I was...she kept in touch with us for a long, long time. I, I have a lot of friends and I thank the Lord for them.

 

SHUSTER: Did you take any missionary courses at Moody?

 

OWEN: Yes, I took , I took Missionary Sewing.

 

SHUSTER: Missionary sewing, what’s missionary sewing? [chuckles]

 

OWEN: You had to, one of the courses you had to have, you had to do...you had to do, men had to do woodwork and women had to do all kinds of sewing and the thing they gave us to do was make baby clothes. I struggled with that more than anything you could imagine. I mean I cannot sew, I mean I try. The Chinese would say, “You’re too “wong”, you’re too hasty, jerky.”  I can’t do anything that requires small steady movements like this.  I guess, I can play the piano but that’s a little bit different. And, oh! And I...if I...my sewing would get so dirty...it would just....

 

SHUSTER: The whole class was just sewing?

 

OWEN: Oh yes...we all...you had to...to be...a...it was a whole missionary course.  You took sewing, you took mild medicine things, it’s called missionary equipment and the men all had to learn some type of carpentry...some type of wood...repairing things. In other words, if you were starved you can do these things. But you go to China you don’t need to sew at all, you got seamstresses by the dozen, cheap is...beautiful, like this beautiful pillow over there...and by there....

 

SHUSTER: [talking over Owen] That’s right, you have hand-sewn pillows there on your...the top of your bed.

 

OWEN: ...one of my friends. So...but that was one of the things that I learned at Moody. Also, it was very good...although I knew the doctrine, it was very good to have it re-worded another way.   Had...I had....  What were the other missionary courses I took? Missionary e...about the cause of missions...I mean the re....

 

SHUSTER: History of missions?

 

OWEN: History of missions, Lower [?], Glover...History of Missions....

 

SHUSTER: Robert Glover taught that?

 

OWEN: What?

 

SHUSTER: Robert Glover taught that?

 

OWEN: Yes, he...his was the text that was used.

 

SHUSTER: Oh, his was the book that you used, but he wasn’t the teacher.

 

OWEN: Oh no, no. Who was the teacher then? I’m afraid I’ve gotten him mixed up with somebody else. But I did take that book and I did take that course.

 

SHUSTER: Were there any courses on how to adapt to another culture or...?

 

OWEN: No, none of that kind that I remember, I didn’t have any. It was...how you could do things, the history of missions and then how you do things when you got there. But I don’t...we may have had something on other religions but if so I’ve...that’s one of those things I didn’t remember.

 

SHUSTER: How to do things? You mean like the sewing or do you mean like preaching and studying, Bible clubs, things like that?

 

OWEN: Yes, oh yes, we had that, we had Homiletics, which was preaching.  I don’t think they actually taught us about starting Bible clubs but they may have, I’m not sure.  That was...I mean that was...I forget...I don’t remember everything.  I remember a lot.

 

SHUSTER: What was Chicago like? At the time that you were there?

 

OWEN: Oh, it was terrible, I thought it was terrible. Going back to my working as a...the... waitress [sic]. After she...one morning before she dissed [dismissed] me we came to school...we came to work at four o’clock in the afternoon, our door that we entered was all full of bullet holes.  The night before there’d been a gang war right on Clark street. And it was....  But that was why we quit [unclear] quit.  And...she let me go in about the first of December and by the end of December, they closed.  I mean they just couldn’t keep going, it was just too....  But, I thought...I didn’t...I had never seen a drunk person before.  Then I grew up in a small town, it had already had its p....  Gainesville had its own prohibition in 1900.  They had marches on the streets, my mother played the organ, ya know and they had....And...The house that I...that we lived in had been owned...built by the main saloon keeper.  When he was driven out of town, he sold the well...rented it, rented it but not from him, from whoever brought it.  And so I had never seen anyone drunk and in California I hadn’t been in that part of the town and I hadn’t been around....  And to go downtown, you know to...you could see four or five drunks.   I was horrified.  It just seemed to me the whole system of Chicago....  That’s why when many years later, we were asked to go to Chicago, I said “Oh, not Chicago.”  But...it was...I didn’t see that part of Chicago practically at all ‘cause we had...we were out in the suburbs, in the North end.  And, in fact we were in New Jerusalem, that’s what they called it.

 

SHUSTER: That the name of the town?

 

OWEN: No, that’s just...sanctioned...it was predominantly Jewish.  Had 5 synagogues in walking distance of our house. [Laugh]

 

SHUSTER: This is where? Evanston or where?

 

OWEN: No, south of Evanston.  Just North Chicago...north there...on Devon and the Lakeshore.  I mean when I went up to the market in Devon, I’d hear as much Yiddish as I would hear English.  Just....

 

SHUSTER: When you were in Chicago in 1930 again, did you go to Moody church?

 

OWEN: Ye...we went...we had assignments.  We went to lo...yes, I would go...Sunday night I went with Harry to Moody Church.  But we had...I was assigned to a small church where they had some Chinese children and I taught a Chinese children’s Sunday school.

 

SHUSTER: Oh! So that was your first contact with Chinese people?

 

OWEN: No, no, I’d had Chine...I’d met the Chine...I really...that’s another...go back.  In Gainesville, there was one Chinese in the town, laundromat [sic] and his nephew came over from China to help him and to earn enough money to go back and buy a wife or something like that.  And the nephew was a Christian and his uncle let him go off on Sunday.  He went to three different churches and we refused admission because of being Chinese.  And he came to our little church which is Southern Presbyterian and he was welcomed in and brought down this thing and welcomed.  But even in our church, one of the leading elders and the richest man in the church said to the board afterwards, “If you let that chink [abusive term for someone from China] come to this church, I’ll never stay here and I will give you no more money.”  Praise the Lord, the main board was solidly evangelical...Christian, I mean the pastor and my father and the Sunday school superintendent and the other one...doc...and they all said, “This is the Lord’s house, if he wants to come...we don’t know how much he understood or anything about it....”  That was my first close contact but mother, every Sunday morning, Mother took her four little girls over to all shake his hand.  We noticed that he always put an offering in and that he...we don’t know how much he understood.  But he was there faithfully every Sunday for at least two years.  And....

 

SHUSTER: Did you ever have a chance to talk with him?

 

OWEN: Well...I...I...I...you know, I was about seven or eight something like that.  I’d just say, you know just “hello”...

 

SHUSTER: “Hello”....

 

OWEN: ...and that sort of thing. But on Christmas of that year that I was eight, the doorbell rang and I went to the door and here was this Chinaman, I can’t even remember his name now.  And I said, “Oh come in, come in”. [Phrase in Chinese ending in “Mama”].  I said, “I’ll go get her.” 

 

SHUSTER: He wanted your mother?

 

OWEN: Yes, your mother, [repeated phrase in Chinese ending in “Mama”], “your mama”.  And so I went...I said, “Mother, there’s the Chinese man....”  She said, “Didn’t you ask him in?”  I said, “Yes, but he won’t come.”  So she came and she begged him. “Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas” and he handed her a lovely little woven basket full of leachy nuts and a...a lovely silk handkerchief.  I think somewhere in my belongings, I still own that.  It’s faded terribly but I...I grabbed it I think eventually.  And realized I didn’t have a thing in hand to give to him, it was two or three days before Christmas and anyway the next....

 

[Tape recorder turned off and on.]

 

SHUSTER: You were saying the next year the man from China visited your house, your mother had a package for him.

 

OWEN: Yes, and he...he...he say...he...you know, he bowed and bowed and thanked her.  But, we couldn’t get him no...we couldn’t....  Of course, he didn’t have enough English so it was embarrassing for him but he...he knew that we loved him because he went every Sun...in the Sunday and then every....

 

SHUSTER: [over Owen] Shook hands with him...

 

OWEN: [unclear] and it....

 

SHUSTER: What was his name? Do you recall?

 

OWEN: No, not at all. At that time I wouldn’t’ve know Chinese names anyway. Ya know, this is...I was only....  And then, he’s the first Chinese I knew and then I met others through the years but I didn’t ever get to know any of them personally.  I mean I never was alone with...with them enough or in circumstances where I could really talk to them.  So, it was just people, they were just people, not....  Except that one person that was so very near to me and then of course, those China missionaries that made me think about China [unclear].

 

SHUSTER: And then you taught the class in Chicago?  The B...Chinese Bible class? Or class?

 

OWEN: [talking over Shuster] Yes, they spoke English of course.  I mean these were just...we were just youngsters that were going to school there.

 

SHUSTER: But did you have a chance to talk....  Had they been in China or were they just...?

 

OWEN: [interrupting Shuster] No, no they were all Americanized.  I mean the only thing was that they went to this Chinese church.  And they had this Chinese and....  We did visit the homes, I remember that but their English was so limited of course, we had no Chinese.  We were...we would mostly just give them the Gospel or tell them things and try to...we tried to get from them what they knew but it was very seldom.  The women wouldn’t...I mean I imagine the men would...I’m sure there’s a lot of real Christian Chinese in Chicago but I didn’t know them at that time and this was of course, sixty years ago or more. [chuckles]

 

SHUSTER: Did you...you mentioned that sometimes you went to Moody Church.  Did you hear H.A. Ironside by any chance?

 

OWEN: Oh yes, he was wonderful, just won....  Now, he’s an expositor preacher and it was just wonderful to listen to him.  We all...all the Moody students...all the Moody students liked to go there if you could.

 

SHUSTER: What made him so wonderful?

OWEN: Well, one thing was it...it was so...it was so Biblical.  I mean it was so...and it was...it didn’t...it sounded fresh even though you might’ve known it before,  the way he presented it.  And also his whole mannerism was so outgoing.  He had a personality that made you...that made you just feel like listening to him.  You know people are like that.

 

SHUSTER: Can you think of an example of that?

 

OWEN: Not at all.  I mean that was something...I just remember going home and saying, “Wasn’t that a good sermon?” you know.  And then of course, the music was wonderful. You loved that.

 

SHUSTER: What kind of music did they have?

 

OWEN: Oh, they had a... a big choir and they had a big organ and they had lots of and lots of singing.  I just go for hymn singing.  Though, I have...since I’ve been here, in order to keep my fingers from going completely stiff and my mind from completely losing reading notes, I started in February of ‘95 and almost every afternoon from 2:45 to 3 when nobody’s in the living room, I go in and I play through hymn books, I play through four: InterVarsity, Voice of Thanksgiving (that’s the Moody one), the...Hymns for the Living Church and another one hymn book that’s called Hymns of America or somethin’, I don’t know, just two ordinary hymn books.  And right now, I’m starting one called Praise and I play...just play through two...each...each verse twice then I be sure I’ve got that one and go on to the next one.  But, it’s two things for me.  One things is spiritually enriching, I...I don’t sing anymore, my voice has gone cracked and I can’t carry the tunes.  But, I do like to sing and I love music.  My whole family loved music.  ‘Course I have...my two sisters are beautiful soloists...my third sister and fourth sister.  They’re just wonderful singers.  And Mother was a concert pianist who could’ve been but she wound up teaching music.  And my Father had a sense of music and all.  One of my most vivid memories and one of the ones I treasure the most was when I graduated in 1930 from UCLA, the folks gave me a real...besides giving me the pewter chest, they gave me a trip out to see Stanford and Berkeley and northern California.  And we...we camped out....

 

SHUSTER: [interrupting] This is partly to look at universities or...?

 

OWEN: Yes, just to see...or places that they thought they’d be interesting.  And we stopped first at Camp...at Sequoia Camp...Sequoia National Park.  And they...we...they had a service of sort in the morning, every park does, and we went to that because we...that’s the one they had.  But, they weren’t having any at night and we walked up, the whole family: four of us girls and Mother and Daddy and Clyde Kennedy, who was with us.  And, we walked out to a place where there was a ledge underneath an overhanging rock and you looked toward the sunset.  So, we sat down and after awhile we began singing as our family always does, just sing and we had parts, you know, we had alto and soprano and bass and...ya know, it was very nice.  So, we must’ve sung for half an hour till the sun was clear down and then we came out from under this ledge and on the top of it was covered with people.  They had heard singing and come and just sat down and we didn’t know they were there [Shuster chuckles].  So, we all...we stood up...and everyone talked to somebody else there.  Wonderful opportunity to witness and testify, just as a family and did we all do that often?  I said, “Whenever we get together as a family, we sing, it’s just...”.  And...but, my sister, my youngest sister, even more so, her whole family’s so musical, they just do everything.

 

SHUSTER: Now when you...in Chicago, you mentioned you went to the Moody Church, did you ever go to Chicago Gospel Tabernacle?

 

OWEN: No, I don’t remember if it was still going at that time or before that time or after that time, I don’t know, I never went to there.

 

SHUSTER: Okay, and anything else you want to say about your year at Moody?

 

OWEN: It was a real year of growth for me.  I mean it was....

 

SHUSTER: Why was that?

 

OWEN: Well, I was away from my family and I was, as I say, I was learning to pray and I was learning I think to trust the Lord too for things.  I...I mean I had never...I just trusted Daddy. [coughs] But I...I didn’t want to write to him all the time. And I...I took anything.  (I’m gonna sneeze I’m afraid).

 

SHUSTER: Sure.

 

OWEN: That’s alright.  I took, I did babysitting, I did domestic work, anything.  And I just feel, that year, I became my own self and an individual grown up.  I mean I wasn’t just a part of the family anymore, although I didn’t love them any less.  I...I was just as close when I came back.  But it was...Also, although I was seeing a lot of Harry, I wasn’t on a steady date as I had been for six years.  Always going to the same place with the same....  And, it was just a year of, I think, of spiritual growth everywhere.  The end of it was rather startling.  We were all going off on different trains.

 

SHUSTER: This when you were heading back to California?

 

OWEN: We were heading back to California.  Some going on...I was supposed to head back on a certain train, the 10:40, with all the California group.  And Harry was going on a the train to the North, [?] back in that big thing.  And we...we started to go together to the train, I didn’t have my ticket, I lost my purse.

 

SHUSTER: You lost it or somebody walked off with it?

 

OWEN: No, I lost it, I left it in a cab.  It was a cloth purse, it was the same feel as my little cloth pillow.  And when I picked up the pillow, I thought I was pickin’ up the purse and when I went to look it wasn’t the purse, it was the pillow and I didn’t have it.  And the cab, of course, had long gone.  And so, I just said I...there were some people going back to Moody for...from seeing people off and I said I would go back with them and sleep with them and just see what I could do, I didn’t know what I could do.  But, I knew I could stay a night at Moody, as far as that goes.  So, I waited to see Harry off, which was very sad.  He was very perturbed.  And he thought...he didn’t like to leave me there knowing not [sic] where I was going and all.  And we didn’t know if we would ever see each other again and all this sort of thing.  But anyway, he left and I went home.  No, before I left, as we were...as we were going through the main concourse, “Margaret Goodner! Margaret Goodner! Anybody”?  And so I went over to the phone and the man said, “Did you just lose something”?  And I said, “Yes, I lost a purse”.  “Can you tell me what was in it”?  And I told him exactly, I knew just what it was, two dollars and ninety cents.  And....

 

SHUSTER: your ticket?

 

OWEN: And my tickets, of course.  And...I’ve...and my testament.  He said, “Well, I got in the cab after you left it but I didn’t find it till I got home and when I got home, I opened it and I thought somebody’d been careless.  Well, when I saw a testament, I thought you wouldn’t be just somebody, you know,  careless.   And so I thought I’d call, can you get out on a plane...train tonight?”  And I said, “No, there’s not one till 10:40 tomorrow morning.”  He said, “Well, can I bring it to you at the Institute?”  And I...”Oh, thank you so much.”  I was so grateful to him.  And he...but I had two dollars and ninety cents to eat on all the way home to California, three days.  I had an apple one meal, I had a milkshake one meal, and I had a bun with a san...a sandwich bun one meal, and when I got home I weighed a hundred and twenty-one pounds and I weigh a hundred and sixty today [chuckles] so you can see how skinny I was.  But, there weren’t...I have many instances of the Lord’s provision and care.  And, I mean I just said, “Lord you”...I did...I didn’t even asked for it to be returned.  I said, “Lord, you know”...I thought I’d have to find some other way.  Maybe I’m borrow from my daddy or maybe I’d have to borrow from someone there till I get home. And I just said, “Lord, will you take care of me?  I’ve got to get home, I can’t stay here.”  And He did.  I didn’t have to stay but the one night.  So....

 

SHUSTER: So, the person called you that night after you returned back...while you were at Moody?

 

OWEN: He...he called the station.

 

SHUSTER: Oh, called....

 

OWEN: I...I was...I was...I was paged at the station.  ‘Cause he didn’t know where I...I mean, you know, could I...I would’ve had the Moody Institute but I wouldn’t’ve had my...there. 

 

Shuster: Sure, sure.

 

OWEN: He, he paged the station ‘cause he’d gotten....He said, “I got in the car at the station probably just after you’d left, but,” he said, “not until I came home way out in the suburb did I see that there was this purse lying there.  So, I brought it in and I thought somebody was just real careless.  But then I looked in it and saw there was a testament and I saw the rest of the thing that it was evidently just....”

 

[Tape recorder turned on and off]

 

SHUSTER: Now, when you returned to California, did you go to Moo...to BIOLA [Bible Institute of Los Angeles] right away?

 

OWEN: Yes, yeah, there’s summertime, of course, that I had.  But, I enrolled in Biola right away, and of course there was no tuition, I was living at home, and not only that, but a real good friend of ours offered me a ride every day.  He said he was going down from...I lived out in the valley, out in the San Fernando valley, way out there, North Hollywood, it was almost in the Valley on the other side of the hill.  And he said, “I’m going down everyday, Marguerite and I’ll be glad to give you a ride.”  So, I got free ride, free tuition, I lived at home.

 

SHUSTER: What was BIOLA like?

 

OWEN: I really can’t judge BIOLA because I was only there from nine to twelve.  I didn’t join any of the groups, I didn’t...I enjoyed it.  I especially enjoyed the missionary courses there, we had several missionary courses there that I took.  Incidentally, I was in the missionary courses with Dick and Don Hillis [prominent Evangelical mission leaders].  I sat right behind them and tried to decide is this Dick or is this Don?  But, then Dick and I, of course became candidates together that very fall.

 

SHUSTER: At China Inland Mission?

 

OWEN: China Inland Mission.  And, the...some of the classes were excellent.   I remember my uncle’s class, Dr. [Stuart P.] MacLennan had a class on Bible exposition.  And he was very good, I enjoyed that.  And Dr. [John] Hubbard, I think everybody appreciated Dr. Hubbard, he was just...he was Bible doctrine.  He was a dry wit, but he was so real that I think all of us....  One of the things I remember most was we were seniors and a whole bunch of us were at a party, at a gathering and everybody was saying, “I’m going to join this mission and this mission and this”,  you know, “I’m gonna go....”  And he said, “Let me tell you one thing, if you’re joining the perfect mission, it won’t be perfect after you join it.”  Boy, that...I mean, but he said, he, he was real, real...realistic.  Everybody appreciated him, I don’t remember now any particular things he said in class, but I know that I love to go to his class and I enjoyed it.  Even though doctrine would seem not very exciting, he made it at least interesting to me.  I don’t know about other people or not, but he was to me. 

 

SHUSTER: Who was the president of BIOLA then, do you remember?

 

OWEN: Who?

 

SHUSTER: Who was the president of BIOLA?

[Pauses]

 

OWEN: Louie Talbot.

 

SHUSTER: Oh, Louie Talbot, did you have any classes from him?

 

OWEN: No, he didn’t teach.  He was just president.  Or he may have taught somethin’, I didn’t have any.  Although, I got to know him very well later when we were on the...when we were at his church often on  missionary conference.  He would say, he told Harry [unclear], he says, “Give it to ‘em, Harry, give it to ‘em, tell ‘em some exciting stories.”  And Harry said to him, “Dr. Talbot, I will tell them what the Lord tells me to tell ‘em.”  My husband was not [tape recorder turned off and on]...[chuckles].

 

SHUSTER: And how did Dr. Talbot react to that?

 

OWEN: I don’t know.  Harry didn’t tell me his reaction.

 

SHUSTER: How did BIOLA compare with Moody?  How are they alike and how are they different?

 

OWEN: The cla...classes were the same.  I can’t really compare the rest of it because I didn’t go to the Missionary Union, I didn’t go to the King’s Daughters.  They were all in the evening and I had to go back to the Valley with this man who drove me.  And that was...we were an hour and a half from downtown so I never got into the student life at all.  And I...so I...I feel though...my feeling is Moody was superior, it is regul....  Well, one thing is I think all the students had to live in and BIOLA, so many of us didn’t.  And that makes a lot of difference.

 

SHUSTER: Why was that good?

 

OWEN: Well, I mean if you’re together all day long, you get to know each other better and you also get a better sense of unity, a better sense of community, of fellowship than you do when you just sit in a class with somebody and don’t talk to them all, you just sit like...I mean....  I, I got to know Dick later and also Heather Rippah [?] who was in the same class and [name unclear] ‘cause we were all candidates together.  But, I didn’t know them at school much, I just knew who they were and that’s sad.  Harold Lanmermuir  was the president of our class, he was once the resident superintendent here [OMF’s retirement center in Lancaster, Pennsylvania]. 

 

SHUSTER: At....

 

OWEN: ...many, many years later.  He went to Africa first and then, he’s here and now his daughter is one of our missionaries in Thailand. 

 

SHUSTER: What is her name?

 

OWEN: Martha Wilson.  She was Martha [unclear] and she married Don Wilson on the field, I mean they got acquainted on the field.  And so, they spend part time in England, part time here.  Ya know, that’s [drops off]....  But, right now they’re in Thailand, at a little place called [unclear] [chuckles]. 

 

SHUSTER: In, after you graduated from BIOLA, did you apply to CIM right away?

 

OWEN: I’d already applied.  I applied in the fall when I came back from Moody.  I went right over to Canfield’s, she’s the one who painted this big picture up here.  I went right over to them, she was the original secretary and I said I wanna apply to go to mission.

 

SHUSTER: Now, why did you choose CIM?

 

OWEN: Well, I...I had always planned to go to China and I thought I was going to the Southern Presbyterian board.  But, I was in a Northern Presbyterian church which was in itself sound and evangelical.   But, I had met quite a few Presbyterian missionaries who came home and who....that’s alright.

 

[Tape recorder turned off and on]

 

SHUSTER: No, this is fine. This is fine. 

 

OWEN: Oh, I was...oh.

 

SHUSTER: No problem here, go ahead.  You were saying you were in a Northern Presbyterian church....

 

OWEN: I was...these...these...these Northern Presbyterian missionaries that I met (and there were many of them, and I met many more on the field) who did not believe in divine scripture, they didn’t believe in the virgin birth, they didn’t believe in the second coming.  And I said to mother, “If I were now put on a station in China....”  You can put it back here cause I won’t hit it anymore.  The, I said if I’m put on a station with two people who don’t believe in the Bible, who don’t believe in the second coming, don’t believe in the Virgin...I’d be lost, I said I can’t stand it.  Meanwhile, while I was at Moody, I’d been going to the CIM prayer meetings with Dr. Page and heard all about the CIM all the time.  I’d been to this China program which had all the different missions in China but I also had a lot of....  Oh, I’ll never forget some of the messages I heard there.  Dr...Mr. G.  Biddley Andrews [?] gave a message, in just our prayer band, just a small group, 30 or 40, but I still remember that message, that particularly.

 

SHUSTER: What did he say? 

 

OWEN: He was saying...he was giving 3 memories that he had of China.   He gave of a Tibetan woman measure her legs on this...this...on the ground, ya know saying, [phrase in Tibetan] and all that.

SHUSTER: As part of a prayer.

 

OWEN: As...as...yes, just as a...as a person trying...that was her belief.  And two other instances of the...of the people, without Christ, a beggar on the street and a little...little boy who didn’t know anything or something.  He said, “As long as there’s people like that in China, my place is in China”.  He’d just come back on his first furlough and I thought, that was, I mean, that was me, you know, I wanted to go, too.  So, anyway, that’s how I got into CIM.  Of course I’d known Mr. Canfield before, back when I was in college.  He had contacted me several times, giving me China’s [unclear] to interest, and he became very alarmed about my health.  He thought I was doing too much.  And I was.

 

SHUSTER: When was this?

 

OWEN: When I was a senior, in college.  He came out...I remember, he came out with...who was it, it was somebody he brought out?  Oh!  It was Buswell, he brought James Buswell out to speak at a big thing out at UCLA.  And I was waiting on his table and came by and he said, “Marguerite, if you hope to get to...”  I told him, of course, I was going to China.  “If you hope to get to China, you better stop doing all you’re doing.”  I said, “Oh, I’m fine.  Mother said the same thing.”  She said, “Dear, these are your years of preparation.”  Cause I was going ten miles and hour, that’s why when I came home from Moody, I really was....  In fact....

 

SHUSTER: You really were...?

 

OWEN: I really was worn out.  When I went to, when I went over to apply with Mr. Sandu...Mr. Canfield, he was very pleased but he said, “The first thing you do is to have a physical exam.”  I didn’t pass, they said I’d have to gain ten pounds.  Wish they’d tell me that now....[laughs] But, anyway, and also, my blood level was very low.  So, he said, “I...you...you...you’ll health will have to improve or you can’t go.”  But he said, “Well, back to the candidate school anyway.  So, when you gra....”  So that was the beginning and so all that winter when I was at BIOLA, I quit every activity except my Sunday school class and going to church and Wednesday night prayer meeting.  I quit choir, Bible study, youth group all those things.  They were...I was gonna go to China and I was scared to death at the beginning right there not being able to go.  And one doctor heard about it and she gave me shots of liver for the anemia.  And I ate liver and onions and liver and spinach and I liked it, fortunately, I liked ‘em and it didn’t matter.  But when I came to my second exam in May before they actually invited me to candidate school.  Everything was okay, but even after that, they kind of kept an eye on me.  They were afraid I’d have TB or something like that because of being anemic but I never did.

 

SHUSTER: What was candidate school like?

 

OWEN: There were just five of us.

 

SHUSTER: Uh huh.

 

OWEN:  It was a very unusual candidate school.  Nowadays, they have thirteen or fourteen over [unclear].  We had one candidate school for the whole year.  Now, they’re having fifteen right now up at Lidington [?].  We were in Colorado, that’s the candidate schools goin’ right now.  But at that time, it was the Depression, and to pay all the fares of all these people to go places, they had a candidate school in Toronto, of which there were just three, one of them was my husband.  They had a candidate school in Vancouver, which I forgot how many of them were there.  But, we were five.  It was the year of the Dionne quintuplets....

 

SHUSTER: The Dionne quintuplets were five children born to a woman in Canada.

 

OWEN: Uh-huh.  And so they called us the CIM quintuplets. [Shuster laughs]  And we were there in candidate school for forty-two days, that’s six weeks and in that forty-two days, we gave our testimony forty times.

 

SHUSTER: To who?

 

OWEN: Everybody.  We went to prayer meetings, to churches, to Sunday schools, to youth groups, wherever they were invited.  We were just taken all over...at that time, we had a lot of CIM prayer meeting, Mr. Canfield was very good at that.  So, we went to all of those, then we we were invited to this Sunday school and then we’d go to a church service maybe at some of them and the evening service and the CE [Christian Endeavor] group.  I have forgotten what they all were.  We were, we were all packed toge...in a big car with two jumpseats.  So, we took all five of us to all these different places.  Oh, we made it as far as San Diego and Escondido and right about the fifth week, Dick said to me, “Ya know, I’m tired of giving my testimonies.  Why don’t I give your testimony, Marguerite and you give mine?” [laughs]

 

SHUSTER: Did you do it?

 

OWEN: No, of course we didn’t [laughs].  That’s...that’s...we had a very happy time as candidates.

 

SHUSTER: What did the school...I mean were you actually learning things at candidate school?

 

OWEN: Oh, yes.  Oh yes.  We learned, we learned the radicals, Chinese radicals....

 

SHUSTER: the language....

 

OWEN: But, we learned simple conversation we learned [speaks Chinese phrases].  Ya know, just all those little, little phrases.  And we also learned principles and practices of the mission.  We had to learn those.

 

SHUSTER: What were some of the main principles and practices?

 

OWEN: That we do not go into debt, that we do not ask for money, that we trust the Lord for all these things and that we do not spend until we have the money.  In other words....  In fact, if you applied and I don’t know whether they do now or not.  But in my day, if you applied with debt, you had to pay off that dept before they’d accept you.

 

SHUSTER: You mean personal debt?

 

OWEN: Yes.  And they also had no guaranteed salary.  The mission came in and divided your [unclear] according to where you were, how much you had, if so...as far as I was concerned, it was wonderful, that was fine.   And then there other principles about of course, the doctrine principles, the things you believe.  Now, in our mission, you were free to believe anything you want on prophecy.  You could be a pre-millenialist or a postmillenialist or a mid-tribulation or there was....  Or you could be any, you could be a Baptist or a sprinkler or a pourer, those things are....  But, you have to believe in the inspiration of the Word of God, you have to believe that the...heathen are lost and that the only way of salvation is through the blood of Jesus Christ and you have to admit that people are all sinner, those things.

 

SHUSTER: Was there any position or discussion of speaking in tongues?

 

OWEN: Not at that point.  There has been several times since.  The mission has now taken, the last I heard this policy: if you want to speak in tongues and you feel you can, that’s up to you privately as long as you keep it to yourself or those of like mind.  But, you cannot put this doctrine on somebody else.  In other words, you cannot say, “You have to speak in tongues or you won’t be saved or you’ll have to be this or you won’t....  That’s divisional.  And....

 

SHUSTER: But there was no discussion, pro or con, when you were in candidate school?

 

OWEN: No, no, not at all.  Nobody even thought of it, didn’t even come up.

 

SHUSTER: ...sail for China then?         

 

OWEN: We were accepted in August and we sailed October 4th.                    

 

SHUSTER: Oh, I meant to...I meant to ask you that, too.  When did you actually find out that you had been accepted and...?

 

OWEN: The end of the...the end of the six weeks.  At the end of the six weeks, they called....

 

SHUSTER: Was there some examination involved?

 

OWEN: No, except they called account.  We all had...we’d had to present a doctorate paper before we even came and we had...they had watched us and studied us and we’d answer different, talked different....  They knew us pretty well.  And then we had the council...the Los Angeles CIM council which consisted of about four people.  And one of them so old I think he was [unclear, laughs] out of him.  But, anyway, we had to give our testimonies to them and then they voted on it, accepted all five of us and we all five sailed within a month.  Three of us sailed in Oc...the three girls sailed on October 4th and the two men went out and sailed on October 7th.  And as I said we met in Yokohama and we met in...in Shanghai, both places.

 

SHUSTER: What was the boat trip like?

 

OWEN: It was another very good experience except the first two weeks.  But, I don’t want to go again, anywhere cause the last two times I went, I was just sick all the time. 

 

SHUSTER: Not this trip, but your last two boat trips, you mean?

 

OWEN: Yes.  This first trip I was sick the first two weeks but once I got the sea legs, I was alright.  Cause it was...we were on the boat, oh, that first two weeks, the first week because we were....  We didn’t see land for twenty-one days.  We sailed from Los Angeles to Yokohama.  And we were carrying seventy thousand gallons of gasoline.  The Danish first mate said, “If we go, we go quick.” [laughs] They...all of that gasoline was later poured out on Americans in China.

 

SHUSTER: It was put out....

 

OWEN: It was put out onto, it was...used to fight China by America.

 

SHUSTER: Oh, it was being sent to Japan....

 

OWEN: Yes, it was being sent to Japan from America...seventy gallons of gasoline.  But, anyway, we were five...there were two...two  missionaries returning and three new workers, five women and there were nine non-Christians.  And at night, those nine sat on one deck and we sat on this deck and they drank and played cards and we sang hymns.  We...one of them played the banjo and I played the ukelele and we used to have just a lovely time.  But we had a chance to witness individually to each one before we got off.  They brought it up, I mean we...we would take curiosities, you know, because we were obviously young, all of us, even the ones going back were only in their early thirties.  And when we got to Kobe and stopped for the day, one of the men said that he wanted to take us all for a trip on Kobe, which we [unclear] he rented a great big van and took us all over Kobe which was lovely.  And I wrote letters and we...I had been given a nice send-off.  Oh my, oh how many, my whole Bible class-Sunday School class came down to the ship.  She’d gone right from my home. All fo these people and my cabin was filled with flowers and candy and all sorts of stuff.  So, we opened one box a day [unclear, Shuster laughs] and [unclear] when we finished up something.... But I had a lovely trip.  But, when I came home...when I came home on our first furlough, on...on...that was on a freighter, but on a president liner, second class, I was uncomfortable the whole time and really sick some of the time.  In fact, I was...we had a storm the last two days and I was sick even after I got off.  And the folks wanted to...met me and wanted to take me to eat.  I was just sick....  Then I had to....  The next time I came home on the ship, I went back on the ship and I think all that time I was partially sick, that was the Marine Links [?].  And then, it was a very horrible trip, we were twenty one ladies in one cabin and thir...men and women had the whole cruise ship.  Then, coming back, we were flown from...that last time...from Hong Kong because there were no boats that would take children at that time.  We were flown from Hong Kong to London.  I had a wonderful month in London.  Oh, marvelous.  And then we came home on a US state and again I was sick most of the time and uncomfortable even if not sick.  So I didn’t wan...I don’t ever wanna take a seat trip again as far as I’m concerned.

 

SHUSTER:  When you arrived...took that first trip in ‘33 and docked in Shanghai, do you recall your first impressions of the city?

 

OWEN: Yes.

 

SHUSTER: What did you think?

 

OWEN: It was fa...oh, fascinating.  We arrived at night and we drove through these crowded streets and all the shouts of the people selling things.  And we got to the big mission home and we were given supper and then we were showed up to our room and we had a balcony looking over one of the main streets.  And I stood there and “I’m in China.”  I could hear the sounds, I could smell the smells, I could see the people going by.  Oh, I thought I’ve arrived.  I stood there just cryin’, I was so thrilled to be there and I never lost that thrill the whole time I was there.  The only other time I ever cried, very differently, in 1951, when we got to Hong Kong and I knew I would never get back.  Not at least as a missionary, I did get back-praise the Lord-to see, but not to be a  missionary.  I stood there at the window bordering outside and just, oh, “I’m gonna leave China and never see it again.”  ‘Cause I had told everybody, “I’m not ever gonna live in the States, I’m just gonna live in China, I love it.”  And my husband tried to comfort me, he said, “Honey, it’s alright, we’re going home” and....  But I said, “You know we won’t go back to China” and he said “Yes”.  But he didn’t mind, I mean he’d gone to China willingly and enjoyed being there but he didn’t have the same feel for it that I had at all.  So that, but that first night in Japan I can remember so well.

 

SHUSTER: China?

 

OWEN: In Shanghai.  We had a huge CIM compound there.  Just...just wonderful, I got to see the compound from the outside in 1988 when my son took me there.  He took...well we...my older son took me to China for three weeks and then ag...si...and then later to Hong Kong for six weeks.  I didn’t go into China the second time.

 

SHUSTER: Well, that might be a good point to stop for today.

 

OWEN: I would think so, yeah.                                               

 

END OF TAPE

 

 

 


Send us a message.
Return to BGC Archives Home Page

Last Revised: 6/18/07
Expiration: indefinite

© Wheaton College 2007