This is a complete and accurate transcript of the tape of the second oral history interview of Mary Goforth Moynan (CN 189, T2) in the Archives of the Billy Graham Center. No spoken words have been omitted, except for any non-English phrases which could not be understood by the transcribers. Foreign terms which are not commonly understood appear in italics. In very few cases words were too unclear to be distinguished. If the transcriber was not completely sure of having gotten what the speaker said, "[?]" was inserted after the word or phrase in question. If the speech was inaudible or indistinguishable, "[unclear]" was inserted. Grunts and verbal hesitations such as "ah" or "um" were usually omitted. The transcribers have not attempted to phonetically replicate English dialects but have instead entered the standard English word the speaker was expressing. Chinese place names are spelled in the transcript in the old or new transliteration form according to how the speaker pronounced them. Thus, "Peking" is used instead of "Beijing," if that is how the interviewee pronounced it. Chinese terms and phrases which would be understood were spelled as they were pronounced with some attempt made to identify the accepted transliteration form to which it corresponds. Readers should remember that this is a transcript of spoken English, which follows a different rhythm and rule than written English.
... Three dots indicate an interruption or break in the train of thought within the sentence on the part of the speaker.
.... Four dots indicate what the transcriber believes to be the end of an incomplete sentence.
( ) Words in parentheses are asides made by the speaker.
[ ] Words in brackets are comments by the transcriber.
This transcript was made by Kate Baisley and Janyce Nasgowitz and was completed in March 2000.
Collection 189, T2. Interview of Mary Goforth Moynan by Robert Shuster on October 20, 1981.
SHUSTER: This is an interview with Mrs. Mary Goforth Moynan by Robert Shuster for the Missionary Sources Collection of Wheaton College. This interview took place at the Billy Graham Center [bumps microphone] on October 20, 1981, at 9:00 a.m. Mrs. Moynan, you left China when you were seventeen?
MOYNAN: That's right. 1920.
SHUSTER: Why did you return to Canada?
MOYNAN: [laughs] Because I couldn't get any...any more education in China.
SHUSTER: You'd gone as far as you could?
MOYNAN: I went to the China Inland Mission School, and it finishes with high school.
SHUSTER: Where did y...did you have trouble deciding what school to go to?
MOYNAN: No. [laughs] No, not at all. It was rather a peculiar circumstance, really. My father had two other members of the family who were sons who were ready to go to college and....
SHUSTER: That was Wallace and Fred?
MOYNAN: Wallace and Fred. And so Mary was shunted off to Bible college. [laughs] That was the only thing that they seemed to think...why, of course, I had planned to go back to China as a missionary, so it was logical. And I went to Toronto Bible College, and....
SHUSTER: How did you choose Toronto?
MOYNAN: Well, Toronto has been the hometown of the Goforths, really, from way back. It was Knox Church, Toronto, that sent my father to China. And he always came back there, and they had receptions there and farewells there [sound of approaching and passing train], and...and so really Toronto's the...the headquarters of the Goforth family.
SHUSTER: How long were you at Toronto Bible College?
MOYNAN: Three years. It's a three year course. And I met my husband at that time.
SHUSTER: That was Robert Moynan?
MOYNAN: That, yes, Rev. Robert McNair Moynan. He was born in Scotland and...but he had a Irish father so he had a strong element of the Irish in him and...which meant humor and this was a strong part of his character. He was a great one to make people happy. I think that was a wonderful quality in Bob. He would leave a trail of laughter after him wherever he went. Even in the stores and that sort of thing, you know, with the clerks, they would be laughing when he left. And in his sermons they...they were full of humor and that wasn't appreciated too much in Canada because [laughs] the Irish-Scottish Presbyterians were inclined to think that he was flippant. But when he got down into the States, they really appreciated the humor in his sermons. Oh, he was a wonderful, wonderful man. We had forty-nine years serving God together.
SHUSTER: What was the program at Toronto Bible College like? Did you feel that you learned a great deal there?
MOYNAN: Oh, very much so. There was a preliminary English course, but I didn't need that after going to...to Chefoo. Chefoo was sponsored by Oxford University, as I mentioned, and it was a very strong English and History course, and...and getting you to really want to read. But in...in looking back, I think what I learned a great deal was the public speaking classes that we got there. They would get us up on the platform to read, that was first of all to read. And then to give a speech, and that sort of thing. I have a strange memory of Bible college that I don't know whether I should mention this but it comes back and...and it may have some interest. I...I think it was the first year and it was in Homiletics and the teacher was trying to get across just what he wanted people to do in getting up a talk or sermon. And he gave us the subject the...this text, "What is that in thine hand?" [Exodus 4:2] (what God said to Moses, you know, and...and his staff). And he said, "Now, write a sermon around that." And I did, and I realize now that I had learned all...a lot from my father on this kind of thing, just listening to him preach, probably. But anyway, I just did the best I could. I just made out an outline, theme, and...and...and, you know, out...points under it and so on. Well, when he got up in class, you can imagine how I felt. He told the...the whole student body, he said, "If you want to know what I'm after, what I really want, you ask Mary Goforth for her paper." [laughs] You know, when I...here I was only eighteen, I think, at the time, and of course nobody...do you know out of that whole student body, there was one person that came and asked me for my paper to look at it, and she was a colored lady. Isn't that strange, though? I mean, they were professing Christians and dedicated and all, but they didn't have enough humility [laughs] to...to do what the...the professor suggested, you know. This...this was strange. But I...I did learn a lot. I...now church history was something I was very much interested in, and I got a hundred plus out of the professor once [laughs]...
SHUSTER: My, [unclear]....
MOYNAN: ...on an examination on it. Yeah, so.
SHUSTER: Now you were planning when you first enrolled in Toronto to return to China as a missionary.
MOYNAN: Yes. Yes.
SHUSTER: Did you take courses there specifically designed...
SHUSTER: ...for your work as a missionary?
MOYNAN: I remember taking a...a nursing course that was a preliminary at the...nurse...oh, I forget what it was called, but there was a school that gave just a preliminary nurses course, and I took that. But...and then my husband, you see, we met there and...and decided to go back to China. He had....
SHUSTER: How'd you meet?
MOYNAN: Met right in my Bible College. You don't want to hear how I met him, do you?
MOYNAN: [laughs] Well...well, you know, young people are usually interested in other young people and how they got engaged and so on. But it was strange that the.... In those days the...the men sat on one side of this huge hall and the women on the other. And, you know, the sheep and the goats [Shuster laughs] were quite separate [laughs]. And I was with two other girls, and one was the...the...the pianist for...for the opening exercises. And so she had to sit on the outside, and then her special friend sat next, meant that I had to sit in the third seat. Well, that meant I was going to sit by a man. And coming from a segregated school in Chefoo, you know, you...you just had a very un...unnatural attitude to the...to the other sex. And I remember sulking for some days. I sat way back all by myself. I wouldn't sit with anybody rather than sit with that man. [Shuster laughs] And then another thing was...finally I gave up sulking and went and sat with him. And he had red hair, and I hated red hair, because I had red hair myself. [Shuster laughs] And [clears throat]...and I grew up with a boy that I hated whose name was Robert. And this poor guy had red hair and his name was Robert. So you see, there were two strikes against him. [Shuster laughs] Well, I ended up by marrying the guy. [both laugh]
SHUSTER: You must have forgiven him.
MOYNAN: [laughs] Yes, I did. But that was really funny how it started.
SHUSTER: A bad beginning makes a good ending.
MOYNAN: Yeah. [laughs]
SHUSTER: When you were in Toronto, did you become acquainted with Oswald Smith?
MOYNAN: Oh yes, he was...at that time, he had People's Church down on Brewer Street. It moved later to the beautiful church they have now in Willowdale. But he was very prominent in Toronto then. And, of course, now I believe he's past ninety and his son is carrying on in his place, which is a wonderful thing. But he was a great friend of my father's. He got me up on the pulpit [laughs] on the platform...
SHUSTER: How did that happen?
MOYNAN: ...to introduce me. I was there just because I...I wanted to, you know, see him. We'd corresponded and...and I happened to be in Toronto. So I went to the church and...and he heard I was there so he got me up on the platform to introduce me to everybody as the daughter of his "lifelong friend Jonathan Goforth," you know. Oh, he's a dear old man. What a ministry he's had all over the world.
SHUSTER: Did you hear him preach often?
MOYNAN: I wouldn't say "often," but (because he was away a great deal)...but I've been in his church quite often.
SHUSTER: How did he as a preacher compare with, say, your father? What was his style?
MOYNAN: I think he was [pauses]...I...I really wouldn't like to say. I...I'm not sure. Father was a very biblical preacher. He was based very much on the Bible and, of course, he would tell the Bible stories in his own language. My husband was very good at that too, making them just live, the story live for the present day. But no, they were both very biblical. But no, Oswald Smith has had a great ministry in Toronto. He's...his raising of money for missions, of course, is a dramatic thing. They have one day a year that they raise the...the complete amount.
SHUSTER: How do they do that?
MOYNAN: And...well, they do it by pledges and appeals and telephone, and...and T...well, now I don't know if it's on TV, but it certainly used to be on radio. And [coughs]...I don't know the amount, but I know it's a staggering amount.
SHUSTER: Would you like a cup of tea or glass of water?
MOYNAN: Yeah, maybe I should have something like that.
SHUSTER: Okay, I'll go get you, sure.
[tape recorder turned off and then restarted, unidentified sound]
SHUSTER: What...when you were in China with your father growing up, what were your relations with Roman Catholic missionaries, the Roman Catholic Church?
MOYNAN: [laughs] You remember some of what's said in I...in Goforth of China, I think.
MOYNAN: I know one of the great difficulties at that time was the...the Roman Catholics had a different idea of how to handle their parishioners. And [bumps stand and microphone] really a lot of this sort of feeling that Chr...Chinese were not sincere Christians, they were just "rice Christians"...came from this, that they....
SHUSTER: They just came for rice?
MOYNAN: Yes, that was the idea. And they would...one of the causes of the Boxer Rebellion, my father states he felt, was because the Roman Catholics, so much that they did in, along this line. And for instance they would go into the courts and...and stand up for their parishioners no matter what they'd done. And, you know, this...the Chinese felt, was very unfair. And this caused a lot of bitterness. But what father and mother took exception to was they were...they felt they were sheep stealers. That they....
SHUSTER: What does that mean?
MOYNAN: Well, that they really won over their converts, that these people were already Christians and then they would come to their church and they would get them to join their church, you see. [laughs] And that's pretty hard to take under any circumstances. And this...this caused quite a bit of bitterness at that time, but....
SHUSTER: Would you say the Chinese were confused or not interested in the difference between Protestant and Catholic?
MOYNAN: Yes. I...I think that denominationalism did a lot of harm in China. It was...it just brought confusion into their minds. They never could understand why the church was divided into all these different sections. And that...that is...it is a great pity.
SHUSTER: It was interesting what you were telling me last night, about the...the priest and the nun who had found so much benefit from your mother's books.
MOYNAN: Yes. I....
SHUSTER: Maybe you could summarize that story further for the tape.
MOYNAN: Well, I'll...I'll try. I...I have had many experiences that I have appreciated the Roman Catholics very much in recent years, and...and felt that I was raised on some cockeyed ideas about the...the Roman Catholics. I...I think Protestants have. They've harbored some absolutely false ideas about the Roman Catholics. And it's just been my privilege to get to know personally, although strangely enough I've never met the gentleman yet. I've corresponded with him for several years. His name is Father William Armstrong of Seattle Catholic University. He teaches there in the Catholic University, and he has written several books, and he's...he's just a wonderful man. Well, he evidently is open-minded to the other churches because he calls me his "Missionary Mary," [Shuster laughs] and he's very interested in what I do. "Million Miler Mary," too, he's called me [laughs], and...because I've traveled so much crossing six oceans in one year and [laughs]...and been to the Orient twice and...and England for three weeks and Canada for many times. And so that's when he started calling me his "Million Miler Mary." But we have had a wonderful...I just.... This might be of interest that he enjoyed the book by my mother called How I Know God Answers Prayer. I had enjoyed a book of his, and wrote and told him how much I enjoyed it. It was called The Angels Must Have Smiled. It was a collection of the sayings of children, you know, along religious lines, and...and it's just a real spirit-lifter. [clears throat] So I sent him my mother's book. And he wrote back and he said, "Isn't it wonderful that your mother can share her faith with all of us like she had in this book? And it's going to help me in my sermons and talks." And...but the beautiful thing he said was, "I can just see Rosalind up there in heaven beaming because of you, the way you're handing out her books down here on earth." [laughs] And now we're going to be giving five thousand out at Urbana [laughs], and this is the climax to her book ministry, I think, so far.
SHUSTER: When you were growing up in China, did you have contact with Buddhism?
MOYNAN: No, except as going around in the...now that...that is an interesting point. I left China realizing that the Chinese are basically, I think all Oriental people, are much more basically religious than we are.
SHUSTER: How do you mean?
MOYNAN: They seem...they seem to have a religious sense. They automatically worship whatever gods they.... And they have umpteen gods. They have a god for everything. [sound of approaching and passing train] And when you would be traveling around the country, you would see shrines wherever you went. And they would have these shrines to different gods. And the Chinese are...are very.... Of course, Mao Tse Tung, I understand is he wiped out, just like he wiped out Christianity, he thinks...he wiped out these other things. And now, to be consistent, they're having to [bumps microphone] allow Buddhism and...and these other religions also to come back.
SHUSTER: How about Confucianism?
MOYNAN: Yes. Well, the...see, he was rejected too, more or less, by...by Mao Tse Tung.
SHUSTER: But did you have any contact with Confucianism or Islam?
MOYNAN: Oh...now, Confucianism, it's really a...a sort of....
SHUSTER: Philosophy or...?
MOYNAN: Yes, it's a philosophy of...of [pauses] action, you know. Confucius says you should do so and so and so and so. And I was raised on that sort of thing, the constantly quoting the...the sayings of Confucius. But as far...and actually I went to school for eight years at Chefoo, which is in the...in the province where Confucius grew up. And I was very conscious that that was nearby. I never got to the...the place, but that's where he grew up in Shandong Province.
SHUSTER: I've read that...that some missionaries have tried to use Confucianism as a beginning point for teaching Christianity.
MOYNAN: Yes. I...I have too. I've heard of that. Because there..there is much value in...in some of the...the things that he has said. But you've got to come back to the fact, and...and of course, any missionary worth his salt would come back to the fact that the Lord said, "I am the way, the truth and the life," [John 14:6] and...and that there can be no other way to God but through Jesus. And I think some missionaries did make that mistake of...of over-emphasizing that angle of the...of Confucius and his teaching.
SHUSTER: What about Islam? Did you any have contact with Muslims?
MOYNAN: Now there's a very interesting point on that in the story of my parents' escape from the Boxers. Do you remember that? They were in one of their worst attacks. God led their steps to a village where they were neutral, and they were Mohammedans or Muslims. And they...as they left...well, they...they really saved their lives.
SHUSTER: They gave your parents refuge?
MOYNAN: Yes. They put them in a little room. Because if the Boxers had found out they were there, you see, they would've massacred the whole village. And they put them in a little room where there was just one window and they put food in through the window. And my father was dying at the time. Mother expected him to just breathe his last at any moment. And...but...I won't [laughs]...I can't go into the story on that. It's a wonderful story. But to bring out about the...the...these Mohammedans, mother said to them, "Why have you done this?" as they left. They...they gave them clothes for the children, because the...everything had been taken from them. And...and they even wept. The women wept when they saw how badly injured they were. Father was just...had eight terrible wounds. And, "Why did you succor us?" And the answer was, "We worship the same God, and we wouldn't be able to face Him in the judgment day if we hadn't taken care of you, had compassion to you." [sound of approaching and passing train] So that was very interesting to me. I've never forgotten that. [laughs]
SHUSTER: Other than that, though, you had no contact Muslims?
MOYNAN: No. I...they say that they collected mostly in the cities, not in the countries and small villages, for safety's sake, because, you see, they were just small groups of Mohammedans.
SHUSTER: Your father's work was mostly evangelistic.
MOYNAN: Yeah, very much.
SHUSTER: Did he have any or association with medical missions or educational missions?
MOYNAN: No. In fact this was a...a very, almost a bitter point with my father, that he felt that the main thrust of missions should be evangelism. And at that time, more and more and since it has become so...in the mainline churches, it's medical missions and educational work that have become the main thing, and evangelism is very much a side thing. And he felt very badly about this. Now one thing I started to tell you before, and fits in with this, is that towards the end of his life, people got such confidence in this evangelistic work he was doing, that they would just send him tremendous amounts of money. And [R.G. Le Tourneau, for instance the...you know...
SHUSTER: R.G. Le Tourneau.
MOYNAN: Yes. What was it we called him? The Earth-Moving Man [laughs]. He was a great supporter of my father. And at the end...very end, father got a letter from a lady in the States saying, "I want to know the name of your bank. I want to place three million dollars to your credit." I...it was probably the biggest gift to missions up to that time. And it was just because she believed in his evangelistic emphasis. And father felt that God was vindicating his stand in...in doing this, allowing this. Well, it never materialized because father died within a few days after that...that happened. But that was his whole emphasis, was not that he didn't believe that medical work and educational work were important. And...and they...they really, especially in the early years, they worked together, the...the medical, the doctors, you know, opened the hearts of the people wonderfully by their...their ministry. And the educational work, of course. And it's just that he felt the others were neglecting...them, so he went overboard maybe on that.
SHUSTER: Did your father hand out Bibles or tracts or any kind of illustrations?
MOYNAN: Funny I don't remember anything particular on that line. I'm sure he must have had a certain amount of material. But I know that when Mr. Davis of the Pocket Testament League came out with the...those Testaments, that he...they...they were a great asset. They gave out these Testaments.
SHUSTER: Were there...?
MOYNAN: I'm afraid I'm not the one to answer some of your [laughs]....
SHUSTER: Oh, I just...I just...
MOYNAN: ...your questions [laughs].
SHUSTER: What you to do remember is, you know...
SHUSTER: ...is some of your own memory,.and if one of these things maybe something you've come in contact to we can go on to something else. Here's...here's another point which you might have some memory...memories on. Were there a particular class that came to your father's meetings, the rich, the poor, the...or educated, the merchants, or was it more general?
MOYNAN: ...in those early years, they...they had terrible opposition because people believed such awful things against them. And nobody would come at first. They had a... a terrible time opening the hearts of the people at all. And it was really through deciding to have open house, and letting the people come. And I think probably in that case it was the c...the common people, the hordes would come. Finally they came. First of all, you see, they believed that...that these foreign devils had the evil eye and that if they looked right at you, you'd get some awful disease or you might even die. So, you see, they'd run a mile if they knew they were around. And, so it took a lot of overcoming this...this attitude. And they would let them come, and Mother actually counted one day they had eighteen hundred people go through their house. You see, the people were curious to see the house and see what they had in it. And she couldn't keep a pair of scissors, she couldn't keep any of these small things. They would just steal them, slip them up their big sleeves, you see. And...but in those days, you see, it would be that element that would come and they...and hear. But, that's how the church was started, and they responded and became, a lot of them became Christians. But later on, father had a great ministry among the really intelligentsia. But that was through his making a study of...of astronomy. And he took back charts and...and this big globe and...and his study was...was really a center of...of the study of astronomy. And so a lot of these...these high class scholar...scholar type, would come and he...he did have many converts among them.
SHUSTER: What do you recall about the political situation in China?
MOYNAN: Oh dear, don't...don't, please, that's such a complicated subject [laughs]. I remember Mother being asked for the...the bottom facts on the situation in China, and she quoted Dr. Smith as a great scholar, he was a great missionary, said, "There are no bottom and there are no facts." [laughs] They're so, it's always a fluid situation. It's...it's a very difficult subject because I think the politics in China have been, up until the Communists took over...have been a very fluid situation at...at all times. But when I was there, it was during the time of the...the warlords as they were called. They...they would rule a certain part of China. And Feng Yu-Hsiang, the great Christian general, was one of them. And of course he became converted and...and I was there the day that my father baptized a thousand converts...
SHUSTER: Why don't you describe that day?
MOYNAN: ...in...in one day. It was a terrific thing. And I have a picture. It's in that set of slides, and I happen to be in the picture. I'm very proud of this. [Shuster laughs] And...but it was held in a...a YMCA hut. And father would have fifteen men, I think it was, come up to the front. And he would baptize them in the Presbyterian method, of course, of sprinkling. And I remember it was said a thousand times that day, so I can give it to you in Chinese. But in English he would say, "I baptize you in the name of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.' And in Chinese it's, "Feng shen fu shen zi shen ling de ming, wo gei ni shou xi." And people...missionaries, came from all over to see that. It was a...a wonderful occasion. And Marshall Feng himself was a very impressive-looking man. He was over six feet, very big man. And very humble. Just a...just a wonderful Christian. And he had a wonderful group of officers. You might be interested to know that they had a...a saying in that army, when it was fifty thousand strong, that the new recruits would come in and the...the other...the...the old fellows would say, "Well, you might as well become a Christian because you gotta act like one anyway here." [both laugh] And they did, because Marshall Feng, he wouldn't let...he always got rid of the red light...light district in any place he went, you see, and wouldn't allow gambling, wouldn't allow smoking even, and it was really a Christian army when it was fifty thousand strong. Became very famous in China.
SHUSTER: How did your father get to know Marshall Feng?
MOYNAN: I think Feng invited him to come and lead meetings in his...
SHUSTER: He'd heard about him?
MOYNAN: ...army. Yes. That's how it began and they really became great friends. Oh, he was a wonderful man.
SHUSTER: What finally happened to him?
MOYNAN: You knew how he died?
MOYNAN: Yes. I read not long ago again about that. [bumps table] He...he came to America and he was...
SHUSTER: When was that?
SHUSTER: When did he come to America?
MOYNAN: Oh, it was right near the...well, it was at the end of his life because of what happened. He had been...did you know he'd been Minister of War on Chiang Kai Shek's ar... staff
SHUSTER: No, I didn't.
MOYNAN: Oh, he was very high in Chiang Kai Shek's estimation and his army. And then he was retired, you see, and he came to America. And on the way back, evidently he was showing slides and they believe that it was...you know...put up thing. But the...the machine exploded and he was killed. It was probably some little bomb or something put in it, but that's how he died. Very sad.
SHUSTER: No idea who...who killed him?
MOYNAN: We...nobody...I don't think they found out who did it.
SHUSTER: And what happened to his army?
MOYNAN: Oh, well, of course that was his army. It was taken in by Chiang Kai Shek and used in the fight against Japan. That was a terrible war. Lasted fourteen years. But as I say, I wouldn't [laughs] undertake to...you know, to explain anything about the politics of China. Except to say perhaps that...that I was...I know my husband and I were, very sympathetic towards MacArthur. And I was interested to hear Jimmy Swaggart (I think it was Jimmy Swaggart).... No, and I'd better not say that in case it wasn't him. I listen to Jimmy Swaggart every Sunday morning and I...I like him very much. He's a [laughs]...he's a very outspoken preacher. But someone was...was saying that that [pauses] it was a great mistake that MacArthur wasn't allowed to do what he wanted to do in...in Korea. And it might have avoided Viet Nam and all that followed, you see. Nobody can really prophesy one way or the other, but that's what we felt, that...that...it's very hard for anybody from this end, living in America, to say what should be done in the Orient. And it's so often...this was true in mission work. [sound of approaching and passing train] Now this incident might be of interest because I remember Father tried to get them in the Mission Board in...in Canada to see that he would have an expense account for expenses. He couldn't...there wouldn't be time, for one thing, to get permission to do everything ahead of time. You know, there's a time element of getting word, especially in those days. And they wouldn't give him an expense account, you know. And it meant that he had to do anything he had to do out of his own money. Now this is one of the things that makes it...it...it happens all the time in mission work, that...that people from this end find it hard to understand what's going on out there, and they cripple a lot of the work.
SHUSTER: The missionary needs some freedom to...
MOYNAN: Yes. That...that's....
SHUSTER: ...to act.
SHUSTER: Would you do you have any recollection...you were just a child, of course...of when the Chinese Republic was proclaimed and the emperor abdicated ?
MOYNAN: That was 1911. Yes. I was...let's see, I was eight years old.
SHUSTER: Any recollection of when you first heard about it?
MOYNAN: I remember we had to leave our home and flee as...as sort of refugees to Tientsin and stayed there for some months before the country settled down and we had to...we were able to go back again. But...and that was when the Revolution started. And Sun Yat-sen sort of started that. But....
SHUSTER: Well, who were you fleeing from?
SHUSTER: Who were you fleeing from?
MOYNAN: Well, it was more the disturbance [claps] and...and...they didn't...you know...the fighting that was going on. They thought it was better for missionaries to leave their stations. And we went to the big city of Tientsin.
SHUSTER: Brings up the question whether the U.S. government officials, the consuls and the ambassadors, or the Canadian, in your case, the Canadian consuls or ambassadors, were they helpful to you in your work? Did you have contact with them?
MOYNAN: No, they were a long way away. They...their headquarters were in Peking, and I...I remember from the time of the Boxer Rebellion word came from the consul repeatedly of the situation, that it was getting very dangerous and finally they got the final word that you must flee, that you must flee south. Don't come north to Peking, or you'll just be killed. And of course they would have been because there were many many missionaries. There were over two hundred missionaries killed at that time. And that's why it was such a.... Father was one of...and his group were one of the few that got out alive and Dr. Glover tells the story in...in A thousand Miles of Miracles of...of the very same area, only father and his group came out after Dr. Glover, when it was even more stirred up than it was at the time that the Glover party came through. That was a very sad story. Mrs. Glover died finally. She was pregnant and...and she had her baby at the end, but then...then they both died. Very sad.
SHUSTER: Of course, the legations themselves in Peking were besieged for...for the war.
MOYNAN: Yes. That' a...I've seen that on TV [laughs], I think, three or four times. It's...it's a very good...
SHUSTER: Is that accurate or...?
MOYNAN: ...presentation of it, I think.
SHUSTER: It does seem accurate to you from [unclear]
MOYNAN: Yes, I think so. This may sound her...heretical, but Pearl Buck, you know, was a great writer, but she wrote one book that she made Empress Dowager sort of a heroine, and I couldn't forgive her on that, because [laughs] that Old Empress Dowager, she nearly butchered my parents. And a lot of other missionaries she did manage to butcher. And, you know...how Pearl Buck could make her a heroine I...I don't know. But she did.. She called...I forget what she called that book. Now, Pearl Buck had a very much the same background as I. She was born about the same part of China and she certainly became a brilliant writer. But at the end she...I...I think it's sad. Her last book was A Bridge Is for Crossing and she revealed that her husband was an atheist. Now she'd lived with him for about thirty years, and...and he really influenced her. She tried to reach him across the [laughs]...from the other side afterwards. And she really lost her faith apparently. And, well, had a great influence on her generation.
MOYNAN: No question about her brilliance as a writer.
SHUSTER: Your mother, I understand, received a medal for her fam...work with famine victims of the 1920s.
MOYNAN: Oh, yes. That's one of the great stories of mother's life.
SHUSTER: Why don't...
SHUSTER: ...you tell it?
MOYNAN: All right. I happened to be there. It was 1920. It was the great...it was one of the worst famines that China has ever known. They estimated that sixty million people would die.
SHUSTER: Was this all throughout China or a particular part?
MOYNAN: In the center part of China, around the Yellow River and the Yangtze River in...in that center part mainly. But they said sixty million people were going to die if help didn't come. And the missionaries all just dropped their work and...and spent their time doling out food as it would come in, and....
SHUSTER: Where did the food come from?
MOYNAN: Well, I suppose they must have, you know, found out the...the need and... and sent what they could. But this...this is wonderful the part mother had in this. It got to a...a point that money was very short, and of course these silver dollars (were about that size) were used at the time and mother was up on a...the mountain of Jigong Shan. Most...all the other missionaries had gone down, were trying to help with the famine relief, and she was up there. She had the terrible disease of sprue. Have you ever heard of that?
MOYNAN: It's one that very few people recover from. And she did miraculously get back her health later, but she lost forty pounds at that time. It's a chronic dysentery. And so she was bedridden and [coughs] one day she got a consignment of money in this silver dollars, so it got around on the mountain and the village. They found out. They heard that money had come to this Goforth home. So they came and surrounded the house and it was dark...
SHUSTER: Who did?
SHUSTER: Who did?
MOYNAN: The...the village people. And they were, you know, very...they demanded the money. And when they didn't get the money they began to throw stones at the windows. And I was there. I'm telling you, it was a frightening experience.
SHUSTER: You were probably just....
MOYNAN: But mother was very typical. She was...she was a very...we used to call her The Dutchess, you know. [Shuster laughs] She had a very commanding appearance at...[laughs] at times anyway. Well, she got up and got dressed and faced that mob. And she talked to them, and she said, you know, that she understood how they felt and she would promise that they would...that she would spend this money on a meal for them the next day down in the village square, and that she would have to trust God to send more money. And she really went out on a limb of faith [laughs] to do that, you know. I don't remember that angle [Shuster laughs] but she must have gotten the money. God must have supplied it. But she did. She...she did that. But the...the point is this. She went upstairs that night after the crowd had dispersed, angry but finally content, and she got down on her knees. And she prayed something like this. She was in such agony of soul because she'd been getting letters of the...the reports of the conditions of people that she loved in...in the mission stations, you know, just with no food, having to sell their children and...and...and live on...on leaves of trees, and...and grass, and mud even. And...and you know, it was a terrible situation. She had all these facts in her mind from letters. Well, she prayed, "Oh God, what can I do to help?" And the answer came like a voice, "Use your pen. Use your pen." That's the beginning of her six books that she got published in her lifetime. She sat down at her desk and she wrote an article. And it was just one page. She called it "The SOS of China's Millions." And it was translated into at least ten different languages. It hit the front pages of the biggest newspapers in the world. Now who but God could do this? He answered her prayer. She really wanted to help. And this is what God did. And a newspaperman told me of this...the Toronto...how it hit Toronto, this "SOS of China's Millions."...told me mu...years later. And all that winter she had stacks of mail come to her bedside, and in each one was a check. And she was able to give checks for five hundred dollars, a thousand dollars. And in the end, I forget the exact amount, but it would come to...close to the value of a million dollars that came through her hands alone. There's no way of estimating how much money came in response to that appeal from the countries of the world, but it was wonderful how they...it did. It was tremendous the help that came to China at that time. Well, she was given a medal by the Canadian government, [laughs] Chinese government. And so many people have said, "Well, where's the medal?" [laughs] I wish I knew. I was...my mother was never one to save things like that and I...I really have no idea where that medal is.
SHUSTER: I imagine.
MOYNAN: But to me that is a marvelous story of people.... If we're willing and want God to help us (no matter what the circumstance; we may be ill, or...or bedridden), but God will respond and He'll use us. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
SHUSTER: Oh, that's okay. I imagine that made it a little easier in your father's dealing with the Chinese government, the fact that [unclear].
MOYNAN: Well, he never really had [pauses] dealings with the [pauses] higher up government. The local government he...he had...he was on very good terms with always.
SHUSTER: In...in 1926 you and Rev. Moynan returned to China to work as missionaries.
SHUSTER: With your father?
MOYNAN: We hoped to stay as missionaries. No, we were going to join the Christian and Missionary Alliance. And it was just at that time that the Revolution started and Chiang Kai-shek began to take over the country. And one thing of interest I think would be to tell of...of our circumstances living there on Jigong Shan. It's a summer resort right in the center of Honan. Did you know that Ruth Graham was brought up in that area? Very close to where I was. Her father was a medical missionary and my father was an evangelistic missionary, and so we have corresponded a good deal through the years, and I'm very sad to hear about her illness. But what...what were we [laughs] talking about?
SHUSTER: Well, we were talking about...
MOYNAN: Oh, yes. Yes.
SHUSTER: ...when you came be...in 1926.
SHUSTER: ...with the Alliance Mission.
MOYNAN: Well, China was just [unclear] so taken over by this situation that all missionaries were advised to leave at that time. So we were only there a year studying the language and...and we were asked to leave, so we had to come back. But we had quite an experience there at Jigong Shan, and this is so typical of my father, what happened at that time. You see, the army was coming north and....
SHUSTER: This was the Nationalist Army?
MOYNAN: The Nationalist Army. They're coming north, and Jigong Shan was...I mean, there were paths up over the mountain and the army was just coming that way. Well, the...the...the missionaries' homes were largely on one side of the mountain. I think it was the west side. And the village was on the east side. Well, I remember we had a baby of six months old at the time. We had to barricade windows with trunks and actually I....
SHUSTER: So there was danger from the Nationalist Army?
MOYNAN: There was. You could hear the fire. And...and you could hear the...the...the bullets flying. I...I remember hearing the bullets flying. And one missionary family actually had a baby in the crib, and...and a...a...a bullet that was a spent bullet in the end, fortunately, but it ricocheted around the room and landed in the crib with the baby, and without doing any injury. So that was a wonderful thing. But at this time my father got very much worked up because the army was beginning to come around our side of the mountain, Well, he kept saying, "They're going the wrong side of the mountain, and I've got to tell them that they should be going the other side...
MOYNAN: ...not this side." So what did he do? He just goes right out and faces them. And here were...were men with their rifles aimed at him. You know, it was just because of his white hair, he was an old man [laughs] at that time, that they had respect for age that they listened to what he had to say. And one of the officers came up when he was trying to tell them this, you see, and he listened courteously. And they did what he said, they went the other side of the mountain [laughs].
SHUSTER: What did he mean they were coming around the wrong side?
SHUSTER: What did he mean they were coming around the wrong side?
MOYNAN: Well, it was that he knew that they were wanting to go where the Chinese people were, where the...the army, the opposing...
MOYNAN: ...army would be on the other side, not where our houses were on the...on the west side, far west side. But Father was a very courageous person. He just simply did what God...he felt God wanted him to do and he knew that God would take care of him.
SHUSTER: Was he in sympathy with the Nationalists?
MOYNAN: I don't think he realized what was going on very much at the time. It wasn't till a little bit later that that, you know, part came out.
SHUSTER: It wasn't really....
MOYNAN: No, it wasn't because of Chiang Kai-shek that he did that at all. [laughs] He wanted to protect the...the missionary community, I think that was it.
SHUSTER: Did you hear anything about the Battle of Nanking when you were...?
MOYNAN: Oh, well that was a dreadful thing, just a dreadful thing. That was one of the awful occurrences of the...of that er...time. The butchering of people and the.... It was awful.
SHUSTER: What happened?
MOYNAN: Well, the...you know, the...just the extreme of...of.... I...I can't go into it. It was just one of the awful massacres of Nanking. That...that will live in the [pauses]...in the annals of that war.
SHUSTER: Did you have any personal contact with Nationalist leaders or soldiers while you were in China in the 20s?
MOYNAN: Mrs Madame Chiang Kai-shek I met once, and I've corresponded with her too. I think she's a very sincere Christian, very wonderful woman. And she's still living but she's in very poor health.
SHUSTER: How about with Communist leaders or soldiers or workers before your trip back, but in the 20s? Did you have any contact at all?
MOYNAN: No, no, I don't think so. No.
SHUSTER: Do you recall hearing about, I guess that would have been after you left, the death of the Stams?
MOYNAN: The Stams? Yes, that's something I'm very much interested in because that happened, the murder of John and Betty Stam, before my father died. And he was...he was a great friend of Dr. Scott's, Betty Stam's father. In fact, I was told later that Betty...Dr. Scott once said that all he ever learned about being a good missionary he learned from Jonathan Goforth, which is very lovely. And one...just before my father died, he said that...told me he had ordered a dozen copies of...of the little book, Telling their Story, Betty...John and Betty Stam. And I've saved...I've hung onto one copy, but I gave the rest away, of course. But that gift came after Ffather died and so it has always meant something very special to me. It's a very inspiring story.
SHUSTER: Let's...I think we need to move on a little.
MOYNAN: Yes, I think so.
SHUSTER: Let's talk about your recent trip to China. How did that come about that you returned to China?
MOYNAN: Well, my little church...I go to a...a little Presbyterian church in Tacoma that only has about a hundred and fifty members. And there were...six of the young elders got up one Sunday after another and gave a little pep talk saying why they thought that the church should send Mary Goforth back to China, and....
SHUSTER: Did you know anything about this or was it just...?
MOYNAN: Oh, yes. I...I was on a speaking tour in the East actually, when this happened, when they were doing it. And this is...let's see...what is it now, a year ago last spring, and...but the church did. They raised over three thousand dollars to send me back to China. And it...it's done a lot for the churches. They've become much more missionary-minded than they were before. And they've taken on the Goforth Ministries as their missionary outreach of the church, and they give to it very sacrificially. It's really wonderful. But I'd like to tell you that what I believe is the main thing. Now, of course, one...one thing happened on that tour that was exciting.
SHUSTER: Did you go by yourself or who did you go with?
MOYNAN: I was with a group, but I was given special permission to leave the tour to do the things I wanted to do, which is very unusual. It was through the America...the Canadian ambassador.
SHUSTER: Was this a group of just ordinary tourists or...
MOYNAN: They were...yes, they were...
SHUSTER: ...missionaries or...?
MOYNAN: ...teachers, a group of teachers from Toronto.
MOYNAN: A group of teachers from Toronto that I latched onto, because I knew I had to go with a tour. You can't just go on your own to China. And so that's how I did it. But it was wonderful the way I was treated. I...every place I went there was a car and a chauffeur and a guide to help me find what I wanted. I told them I...I would like to find where my parents worked in Manchuria in those last eight years of their lives. You know, imagine coming to a retirement age and...and they just decided they weren't going to go back to Canada and sit in rocking chairs and wait to die. They looked around for another mission field. And at seventy years of age...and they...it was real pioneering. I've just been reading some of the letters of my mother's during that period and it reveals the...the tremendous courage and fortitude that they showed doing this pioneer work at that time, way up there in Manchuria. For example, Mother spoke of they would have no heating...proper, adequate heating at all. And it was very cold there. They would have...she would have a basin of water at the side of the bed ready to wash in the morning, and it was often solid ice, you know, in the morning. This is a terribly hard thing for older people is...is cold. I'm finding that very true. And so they...but this is what they did. They...they went to Manchuria and carried on that work for...for eight years. But now what was the point you wanted to...to bring out there?
SHUSTER: Well, I was just asking about your trip.
MOYNAN: Oh yes. Well, but I wanted to...to bring out the result of that trip. I found the place where they worked and...and was able to talk to some of the Christians. In fact, I was met at the train as I got off there by two of the Communist leaders in that city of Siping, where father established the work back over fifty years ago now. And, of course, during the time of the takeover there were massacres of Christians. They say that...that it was some of the worst massacres in...in China.
SHUSTER: This was about 1950 or so?
MOYNAN: Yes. '49 was the year the Communists took over and from then on there were a few years where it was terrible. I just read rec...somewhere it said Mao Tse Tung is responsible for killing more people than any other human being in the history of mankind. That's a terrible thing. Well, anyway, when I got there, it was a wonderful experience to talk to these dear people, and I got the address of a lady who is the daughter of Pastor Su and there's a picture in Go...the book Goforth of China of...of Pa...my father and Pastor Su together. He was Father's most valued preacher-companion. They were inseparable. Well, here I got the address of...of his daughter. And she is a preacher in...she tells me, "We're both carrying on the work of our fathers." And we've been corresponding. She...her daughter speaks English and writes English, and so helps her write these letters. But I just got a letter. I'm afraid I haven't got it with me, but I can quote you a little bit. It just came two days ago and it was in French. I had to get it translated, because we're having difficulty finding a language that to get together on [laughs, pounds table], you know. It's...it's too bad that I can't write Chinese, but I don't write Chinese, not the written language. And...but she's a wonderful person and you'll be interested to know what's happening there after all these years and all the...the massacring of people. The Communists allowed this church to open officially. They're doing this...at least fifty churches throughout China have been officially allowed to open. And this is one of them. And Su Saik Wong [?] her name is, she wrote and said that they opened and started in a little room, and now about a year and a half later, they have six hundred believers attending. And this to me is simply beautiful, that God is blessing that work. And this letter is so excited, because she had just received the first copies of the Goforth books. The books that were written about their work in China, you see, fifty years ago and have been going on for fifty years, and people are still reading them. Well, they had never seen these books, you see. And she is just so excited about that.
SHUSTER: Where did she get them from?
MOYNAN: And...well, I sent them to her, you see, and she's thanking me for the parcel of books. And first of all she told me that they didn't come, and I thought maybe the Communists were holding them up or...you know. But they got through and she's just so happy, and she's just so thrilled about the story of the service and work of Jonathan Goforth. She says that, oh, I just wish I could remember the...the words she used. She's just a beautiful Christian person, and this is the result. You know, I think this is wonderful that...that God carries on His work. God calls His workmen, but His work goes on, and it's beautiful.
SHUSTER: Is your...is your father's name well-known in China still?
MOYNAN: Well, that's what I've been told, that...
SHUSTER: Who told you that?
MOYNAN: ...he's...he's remembered all over China because he did this preaching, you see, as an evangelist. And...you know, we remember because it goes on for...sort of, word of mouth, one generation to another about certain people like D.L. Moody. He's a...he's a tradition in America. Everybody knows about D.L. Moody. Well, my father was often called the D.L. Moody of China, you see.
SHUSTER: Who told you about his still being well-known in China?
SHUSTER: You said you were told that he was still well-known...
MOYNAN: Yeah, when I was there visiting.
SHUSTER: Who told you?
MOYNAN: Christian people that I...I met some Christian leaders in Peking and in Shanghai and Hong Kong.
SHUSTER: What [pauses]...what is the current view...did you get any idea of the current view of the Chinese government towards missionaries?
MOYNAN: I think they're just being tolerant and...and open. They certainly aren't clamping down in any way at the present time.
SHUSTER: On missionaries or on the Christians?
MOYNAN: On...on the Christians.
SHUSTER: Was about their attitude towards missionaries?
MOYNAN: They...they don't want missionaries. They don't want...even the Christian church of China doesn't want missionaries from other countries. And I think they're quite capable of carrying on their own evangelism and look how the church has grown under the years of persecution. It's still grown. And one of the reports...recent reports I've gotten is that they are digging up Bibles that have been hidden away. That's interesting, that they feel evidently that they can get away with it...having these Bibles. And during the time that they didn't have Bibles, imagine them copying by listening to their radio and the reading of the Bible. They would copy that down. And they would get great portions of the Scripture used that way. I think we're going to get some marvelous testimonies of what has gone on in...in the Christian church in China.
SHUSTER: Did you have a chance to talk...to attend any Christian services in China?
MOYNAN: No, I didn't. But I had this wonderful experience of running into Hudson Tay...Hudson Taylor III. And he speaks the language like a native, and he was able to get into some of these house churches. And he...he reports that it's...it's just all over China they are having these house churches, and it's very much alive, you know. Some people go to China and they say they don't see any sign of the Christian church. Well, because the old buildings are not being used, you know. They're used as "go-downs," as they call them, storage places, and that sort of thing. But that...that isn't the way to [laughs] value...evaluate the situation, because it's a different situation completely. Oh, no, I'm very optimistic about the church in China that it...it's God's work, and He's going to carry it on. It's something He began and He's going to finish it.
SHUSTER: Did there seem to you to be anything...particular needs of the church in China?
MOYNAN: Oh, they certainly need Bibles and there are people that are managing to get the Bibles in and of course the Chinese are claiming they're going to print them themselves. That's the...one of the latest things. But whether that's true...that could be just a...you know, a false move. And so I think Bibles need to be supplied to them. And I've ordered Bibles to be sent in. And...and Sunday School help. Now Dr. Paul Kauffman, a Pentecostal leader, he's lived in Hong Kong, he was raised in China, and he's one of the best people I know of to funnel any help through. Because he...he himself travels constantly in China, and he knows the situation like few people do. [sound of approaching and passing train] And he gives a report. Asian Outreach is his work. [sound of approaching and passing train] It's called Asian Outreach. Well, I think we're [laughs]....
SHUSTER: Well, I've got a few more questions. We still have a few more minutes I think. [Moynan laughs] When you came back and when your father came back to North America from China, what seemed to you to be the perception [claps] of North Americans of both China and the church in China? What...how deep was their understanding of what was happening in China? I'm talking now in the 1920's or so.
MOYNAN: Well, father died in 1936, and I think...well, he was asked to...to come home just before that really to tour the church in Canada to stir them up because they were getting so cold to missions. And I think that at that time it was the beginning, and...and it's grown colder and colder, the attitude to missions.
SHUSTER: Why is that?
MOYNAN: I don't know. I think it's because of the...maybe because of the general lack of spirituality, just a worldliness that's gotten into the church that it's hard to tell between a sincere Christian and a one that's not a sincere Christian but just attending church because it's the thing to do. There seems to be a lot of that.
SHUSTER: Did there seem when you came back in the '20s, '26 and '27, to be understanding of the church in China or of just Chinese life?
MOYNAN: Well, I [pauses]...I'm afraid I was too young to be able to give any...I was only seventeen, you know, and [unclear]...
SHUSTER: In 1927?
MOYNAN: Yes. Well, no, I was a little older then. But I think that...that it seems that there's...it's become less...there's less and less interest in missions. I hope that it's...it's something that is increasing now, but it's a very different situation.
SHUSTER: When your father came back in the '20s and '30s on furloughs, when he finally came back, of course that was just the time when there was this great split in the church between Fundamentalists and Modernists. Did that have any effect on his work or his career?
MOYNAN: Well, I...I feel that father was very much rejected by the...the leaders of the church because he was so Fundamental. And...but I think God has...has [pauses] brought out the fact that he was taking the right position. And this...it's the church that...that believes the Bible that is growing today, and...and so I think my father has been confirmed in that position.
SHUSTER: But rejected in the sense that they did not support him or...
MOYNAN: Yeah, they just...
SHUSTER: ...give him pulpit [unclear].
MOYNAN: ...treating him as if he was an old fuddy-duddy [laughs].
SHUSTER: Did he have contact with the Fundamentalist leaders in the United States such as R.A. Torrey or...
MOYNAN: Oh yes, yes.
SHUSTER: ...William Bell Riley?
MOYNAN: And he had some great friends among the real Fundamentalists.
SHUSTER: What...I was reading in your mother's book that you were one of the...one of the...I think you and another child were the only ones who spent the last Christmas with them before your father's death.
SHUSTER: Do you remember anything about that?
MOYNAN: Well, I think that brings me to something. I...I...maybe I'd like to close on... on this.
MOYNAN: It'll be as good as anything. To find the things...when Mrs. Graham wrote to me and asked if I would like to bring the Goforth papers to the Billy Graham Center to have them left here permanently, I began to think, "Well, papers, now let me see, Goforth papers? I can remember seeing many things years and years ago, but I haven't seem them for so long. And I haven't any idea where they are." And I believe that God in...like so often, this was his timing, and he knew where those papers were. Now I happened to be talking to a group, mostly family, and I said, "What am I going to do? I don't know where those papers have disappeared to. I haven't seen them for years." And a daughter-in-law spoke up and she said, "I was in the attic, our attic, and I believe I came across what you're talking about." She goes up and she brings down two big cartons and...full of these papers that I've been talking about that I brought...sent to you. And they include diaries that go back a hundred years, go back to telling of the very beginning of their work in China, 18-, 1888. Just think, it's nearly a hundred years. There should be some special celebration in Canada, at least...
SHUSTER: A centennial, yeah.
MOYNAN: ...for that. And so I was able to get these papers. Well, now, personally the most beautiful thing that has come to me is that I discovered a package, a large package of personal letters from my mother to me...
MOYNAN: ...and she must have gotten them back when she was writing Goforth of China, and thought it might help her because it covered the period of their last years in China. And they are simply beautiful letters. And [laughs] well, the...the thing that...that touched my heart so, was I was just one of six children, but these letters reveal that it was my letters at that time that meant so much to them. [coughs] And she says several times in these letters that, "Mary, you know, when I'm down and when I'm sick," and she was ill a great deal at the end there, "and...and when I'm feeling absolutely discouraged, I just sit down and I write to you. You're the one I turn to for comfort and...and understanding." And now, after forty years, to read these letters, it...it's just brought tears to my eyes. And it makes me feel, if I didn't do anything worthwhile in my whole life, if I meant that to my father and mother in those last years, then I did something worthwhile. And...and I hope that maybe anybody that hears me tell this, will make them realize how important it is to write letters, to write letters right from your heart to your family. And they'll live on in their hearts, and these letters have. They've...they've just...it's just been beautiful. And I just hope that it's something I can share. It would make a...a...a wonderful book as a sequel to the...the Goforth books. Because there're people living today who are...like Mrs. Billy Graham, who are ardent book fans of the Goforths...of the Goforth books. And I'm hoping that maybe I'll live to do this, maybe write a book and call it Dearest Mary. [Shuster laughs] All the books start...all the letters start, "Dearest Mary." And they're just simply beautiful, and they reveal the...the tremendous courage and fortitude that they had to do that work in Manchuria those last years. And God blessed them, He poured out his...the money and blessed them in every way, and...and there were thousands came to God at that time. Tremendous. It was a great ministry. And this is what I'm trying to carry on in just a small way in the Goforth Ministries, it's called, and Parkway Church...Parkway Presbyterian Church in Tacoma is...is backing me up and...and trying to help me in every way they can. It's wonderful just to be a little cog in God's wheel.
SHUSTER: Well, on that note I think we can end. [Moynan laughs] I want to thank you very much for these interviews and for the material you've given to the Archives. I think it'll be one way of continuing your parents' work.
MOYNAN: Yes. Thank you very much.
END OF TAPE