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This is a complete and accurate transcript of the tape of the interview of Vernon William Patterson (CN 5, T6) in the Archives of the Billy Graham Center. No spoken words have been omitted, except for any non-English phrases which could not be understood by the transcribers. Foreign terms which are not commonly understood appear in italics. In very few cases words were too unclear to be distinguished. If the transcriber was not completely sure of having gotten what the speaker said, "[?]" was inserted after the word or phrase in question. If the speech was inaudible or indistinguishable, "[unclear]" was inserted. Grunts and verbal hesitations such as "ah" or "um" were usually omitted. The transcribers have not attempted to phonetically replicate English dialects but have instead entered the standard English word the speaker was expressing.
... Three dots indicate an interruption or break in the train of thought within the sentence on the part of the speaker.
.... Four dots indicate what the transcriber believes to be the end of an incomplete sentence.
( ) Words in parentheses are asides made by the speaker.
[ ] Words in brackets are comments by the transcriber.
This transcript was made by Wayne D. Weber and completed in April 2001.
Collection 5, T6. Interview of Vernon William Patterson by Paul Ericksen, March 5, 1985.
[NOTE: Because this interview was conducted while Ericksen was driving, automobile noises and Patterson's intermittent directions can be heard throughout the recording. In some cases the automobile and traffic noise makes it difficult to understand the interview. Mrs. Vida Patterson is a passenger and she periodically interjects a comments, sometimes inaudible.]
ERICKSEN: William Patterson by Paul Ericksen for the Billy Graham Center Archives. This interview took place on route to Waxhaw, North Carolina from the Pattersons' home in Charlotte, North Carolina, on March 5th at 11:30 am.
ERICKSEN: Well, Mr. Patterson, you were...yesterday when we weren't recording you were telling about the...the land at Waxhaw that...that JAARS [Jungle Aviation and Radio Services] got. Can you tell...can you tell that story again?
PATTERSON: Well, the JAARS' headquarters (that's the Jungle Aviation And the...and Radio Division of the Wycliffe Bible [pauses]...Wycliffe Bible Translators)...had it's headquarters up in Greensboro. A Mr. Ruth up there was in charge and Ruth came to see me a number of times and I...he wanted...when Billy Graham held his meeting here in '58 Ruth had been...he came down to the meeting. Wait now let me get my mind....[recorder stopped and restarted]
PATTERSON: Well, Billy...Billy held a meeting here in the November of '48.
PATTERSON: Of '58, November of '58. Mr. Ruth had been coming to see me an number of times about the JAARS work that he was regional director for. Well, in the...in the '58 crusade of Billy, Henderson Belk and his wife went forward and accepted Christ and became very zealous for Christian work. Well, at the close of the meeting, and even after the close of the meeting Billy had left one of his leaders here to fulfill...for follow-up and this Mr. Ruth persuaded him to persuade [pauses] Henderson Belk...Henderson Belk to invite the JAARS people to move their headquarters down here. They had already [pauses]...let me see now, let me collect my mind a little there. [pauses] Well, for cer...Mr. Ruth from Greensboro came down toward the close of that meeting and persuaded [pauses] Henderson Belk to invite JAARS to move their headquarters over here.
PATTERSON: Well, JAARS agreed to...to move. They were...had...had their headquarters at that time in California. They moved over here...turn along...[giving directions to Ericksen] and asked me to introduce them to Charlotte. It was the week before Easter, but that was the only time they could get the speaker they wanted to come and tell about how the Wycliffe people operated and translated from one language to another. So I [clears throat]...I set up a meeting for them [pauses] and they...after that they asked me every time their missionaries came in to find a place for them to live. The Belks had bought a big two...two story house down on York Road, near Woodlawn...law...and as an investment and it was unoccupied so they turned that over to JAARS to make their headquarters. Well, every time a new missionary would come in they would ask me to find a place for them to live. Well, I...I would try to find a place down in that section. They'd already started getting the houses down on York Road. But I knew that was not the right location for them because the land that Henderson was using was the old naval base and that was...I knew was going to be a...a...a business section. So I phoned Henderson one day, and I told him that I didn't want to do anything that wasn't in accord with his ideas but I though they ought to move out to a larger place where they would have a...a...a site of their own and could build a [pauses]...a...well...an...an airport out there. And I said, "Would you mind if I would get a...a real estate man"...(turn left here)..."a real estate man...?" (All right let's turn left)..."that would...is dealing in...in farmland out...outside of Charlotte." And he said, "No, just...I think that's...that's a good idea. Go ahead and see what you can do." So I got a real estate man and for three weeks I searched the county and I couldn't find anything but one...one place that looked like it might possibly do, but I thought it was probably even small at that. We'd had already started prayer meetings for JAARS so at the next prayer meeting I got Henderson aside after the meeting, and I told him about this place that I had found. And I told him what...what the price was and how I thought we could raise the money and what I thought I could raise myself and I went on describing it and telling him how I thought we could work it out and Henderson just stood silent. And...and I kept talking and he kept silent, and I kept talking and he kept silent, and I kept talking and all of a sudden he broke loose. He said, "Mr. Pat, you don't need to be getting excited about that. I have twelve hundred acres of land down in Waxhaw. I think I can give them all they need." Last account was he gave them two hundred sixty acres of land and they've established there now a worldwide center of evangelism with...with radio and televi...radio all reaching around the world.
VIDA PATTERSON: You introduced them, dear, introduced them.
PATTERSON: Well, I did. I hold...I told him about that.
ERICKSEN: You mentioned that, yeah.
PATTERSON: I told him about that.
ERICKSEN: Now, did they...they have an airport down there?
PATTERSON: No, they...they had room for it.
PATTERSON: They had room for it to build their own airport. And they got the Dickenson Company down at Monroe to come lay it out for them as...as a gift. They have a good airport there. The Dickenson Company did...
VIDA PATTERSON: [unclear]
PATTERSON: ...did that for them. My this is a city built up here since I was down here a couple of months ago, it looks like. [laughs] Everywhere you go in Charlotte you see building, building, building, building. And if you...if you don't go in a...a...a section for several months you'll hardly recognize it when you go back.
VIDA PATTERSON: Did they cut it off yet?
ERICKSEN: You...you mentioned earlier that you had several other incidents to relate about Mr. [Dr. James] Gray from Moody Bible Institute. You told the one incident yesterday during our interview about when he invited all of you to his home and told you why he had come to...why he had come to the Bible Institute, but you said there was another incident that you wanted to relate. Could you tell that?
PATTERSON: Did I...did I...did I tell you just...did I finish that about how he...why he came?
ERICKSEN: Yes. Yes, you did.
PATTERSON: About the...the [unclear] had been sent in by Henry P. Crowell?
ERICKSEN: Yes. He'd been there for two years and....
PATTERSON: All right. Well, one of the other things was this. Dr. Gray had the reputation of ruling the...the Moody...the Moody Bible Institute with an iron hand. But actually he was at heart and...and in his dealings a very gent, courteous gentle...gentleman and with a very tender heart. And I'll give one illustration that I...that shows that and...and his consideration for others. When he put...when he put me on as a field secretary toward the...a year or so there, I set up a meeting down at...for him down at Plant City, Florida, which is a small town out of Lakeland. The only hotel in the hou...in the place had no heat...no....
VIDA PATTERSON: You told that.
PATTERSON: Oh, Vida.
ERICKSEN: No, no. Go ahead.
PATTERSON: The only hotel there had no heat except a big trash burning stove down in the lobby. And the temperature fell down to below forty, way...way down in the earl...low forties which is about zero, it feels like about zero up here. Well, Dr. Gray...I had to go over to Tampa and meet Dr. Gray and Dr. Robert Dick Wilson, who were in a conference over at Saint...at Saint Petersburg. Well, I just trembled about Dr. Gray because I knew he was very, very particular and...about his health. He would...he would hardly speak to the audience after a sermon when he...when they came up to shake hands with him until he put on his overcoat. He was so particular, I knew that. And here was...here...I...the pastor who was taking us over to Tampa had just an open Ch...Ch...Chevrolet car with a cello...cello...plate...cellophane flaps down and the temperature was nearly down to freezing and the wind was blowing. And I just trembled for Dr. Gray because I knew how particular he was about his health. Well, we met him...we met him and Dr. Robert Dick Wilson of Princeton at the deck...at the dock and we put Dr. Gray, wrapped up in his heavy overcoat and I sat behind and trembled and wondered how he was taking it. But he made no comment. And when we got to the hotel I ra...really trembled about the...the accommodation he had. The only...only room I could get had a connecting bath with mine. The connecting bath merely had two doors opposite each other. And no...no heat, the...the hotel had no heat but this one little trash bottom burner down in the lobby. The did have several little oil heaters that people had gobbled at once and I couldn't get any for him or for me either...well, I did get one for myself. So, what...so I took my little portable st...stove over and put it in Dr. Gray's room that was adjoining mine and hoped that he wouldn't be much upset about the accommodations I had for him. Well, I took him up almost trembling to his room and...and he put it in. He made no comment and I went to my room adjoining. And I laid down on my bed just wh...hearing him walking up and...(turn right, right here, turning). [clears throat] I heard him walking up and down in his room over there and I wondered what he was thinking. Finally a knock come on my bathroom door. He said, "Mr. Patterson, open the door please." And when I opened the door he had measured the desire...the distance between the door opposite his door and had set that little oil burner right in the middle of that. And he said, "Mr. Patterson, I want you to keep your door open so that you can get as much heat from this stove as I'm getting." [laughs]
ERICKSEN: It's a good story. You...you mentioned that he had a reputation for ruling Moody with an iron hand. Can you think of any incident that illustrates that?
PATTERSON: Yes, I can. When I...when I was first put on along with several others on the fac...on the staff as a field secretary, he held a meeting for us...for us the new staff men that he was putting out. And he stood up in the floor there and was giving out some instructions. And among other things he tried to feel us out, I'm sure, by telling us a story and just watching the reaction that we would give. He said that there was a time when Moody Bible Institute needed a trustee and they made a search for a man that they felt would fill the place. They finally found a man that qualified all...that met all of their qualifications except one. And that was he used tobacco. And he turned to us and said, "Do you think we should have taken him?" Well, the...everybody kept silent. Everybody was doing better that I did, I'm sure, or most of them did, they kept silent. And I waited for somebody to speak but nobody spoke and Dr. Gray stood there waiting. So finally I broke the silence. I said, "Dr. Gray, if this...this man that you say you have found that qualified...that meets your qualification...." (This is old Providence Church here, right there, or...organized before the Revolution. Those are the old graves out there. Providence Presbyterian Church). I...I said, "Well, Dr. Gray, it seems to me if this man that you spoke of is so...meets all of your spiritual qualifications and the only difference is that you're doubtful about his smoking, looks like if...if that's a handicap, he'd be willing to give that up to take...take this place." Dr. Gray turned promptly on his heel and his two finger [pauses] gesticulation and he pointed right at me sharply, "Mr. Patterson, that is not what I asked."
ERICKSEN: What did he say next? Or what did you say?
PATTERSON: I didn't say anything next, I didn't say anything next. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: What did he say or was that the end of the...?
PATTERSON: No, he went on instructing us about other things but that's the way he did it. His gesture was...turn back the last two fingers of his hand and keep the first two and point them sharply toward what...the one he is speaking to. But the answer...but he was leading me...he...he...
ERICKSEN: He knew well enough not to answer?
PATTERSON: ...well, well, he was really trying to find out from these new staff now...I mean, field secretaries what their attitudes was toward tobacco. But he...he didn't come out and ask them. [laughs] But he wanted to see their reaction. (You have about twenty more years to...miles to go.)
ERICKSEN: Okay. You...
PATTERSON: (Twenty-five more).
ERICKSEN: ...you...you mentioned that...you mentioned A.C. Dixon. How did you...how did you meet him?
PATTERSON: Well, on our wedding...on our trip to...right after our wedding and our wedding trip we were...had boarded a train in Nashville to go to Louisville, Kentucky. We were in the Pullman car and across the aisle from us sat a distinguished looking man with a...a black coat, I believe it was a Prince Albert coat. And I turned to Vida and I said to her, "Vida," I whispered to her, "I believe this is a...a distinguished man over here opposite me...us." So I [pauses]...I initiated a conversation with him.
VIDA PATTERSON: Football.
PATTERSON: On football. [Mrs. Patterson laughs] I asked him were he was going. He was going Danville, Tennessee...Danville, Kentucky. Well, that brought to my mind the fact that the Centre College there had beaten Harvard in the recent football game at the...at the college he was going to speak to in Danville. He told me where he was going. So he started talking about that football game and then we continued the conversation and finally we became very close together. And I saw him a number of times after that. And he told me a...a number of his own experiences. He...I'll summarize it.
ERICKSEN: Now that gentleman was A.V. Dixon, I take it?
PATTERSON: A.C. Dixon.
ERICKSEN: A.C. Dixon.
PATTERSON: A.C. Dixon. Well, I'll...I'll tell you something in...in advance of what he had...what he had...had been. He had first started as pastor of the First Baptist Church. Well, now he graduated from West...Wake Forest College. He was...he was born in...in and lived in Shelby, North Carolina. It was a...it was a very famous Dixon family there. He came from that. (Just keep going. This is...this is Weddington here). He...and then he...the first call after his seminary graduate...after he had graduated from seminary was First Baptist Church of...of Asheville. And after...after his pastorate there he was called to the First Baptist Church of Baltimore where he stayed for several years. And from there he was called to the Moody Church in Chicago and from the there he was called to Spurgeon's Tabernacle in London. So we begin with that. While he was in London he came back to...on a visit to his old church in Baltimore and he told this story of about his experience. When he was pastor in Baltimore he had a member of his church who was the wife of a saloon keeper. And his wife of...his...the sal...the saloon keeper's wife was a earnest Christian and kept after him to go to see her husband and lead him to Christ. And he kept telling her that, "I can't afford to go in that barroom down there as a minister, be seen going in there." But she wouldn't give him any peace about it. She kept after him until finally he agreed to go to see him. Well, this was a very burdensome task for him and he decided to get rid of it as quickly as possible. So the next morning he (this is after Sunday...Monday morning)...he went into the...he just burst into the saloon. Pushed aside the swinging doors, went into the darkened room where the men were sitting around drinking, and...and there over behind the counter was the man he took to be the proprietor, which he was. So he went over and asked him if he was the proprietor and he said, "Yes." And he...then he said, "I...I told...I told him for about thirty minutes what a damnable business he was in. And I just told about everything mean I could say about it. And finally, "Well, he was the gentleman," he said. "And he took it all right. He didn't say anything. He just...just let me talk. And finally after I said about everything I could think about I asked, 'Would you li...would you mind if we would have pray together...if I would have a prayer?' He said, No. So (he was an Englishman)...and so we bowed in prayer and I began praying out loud. I said, 'Oh, Lord, Thou knowest the damnable business our friend here is in.' And I went on praying against that damnable business that this man was in and prayed...prayed for him. Well, he was a gentleman," said Dr. A. Dixon. "And...but when I started praying...(he was an Englishman. I didn't know it)...and I started out, 'Oh, Lord, Thou knowest what a damnable business our brother here is engaged in, he'd been accustomed to repeat the prayers over in England. So he...he repeated what I had said, "Oh, Lord, Thou knowest what a damnable business our friend here is engaged in. And I had to change my tune, [laughs] but I brought...and the...the customers out in the room there were just breaking out into laughter. And I brought my pr...prayer to a quick close and got out as rapidly as I could while the...the customers were laughing. And I walked down the street thinking what a fool I'd made of myself. Well, I went on to Moody Church and then to Spurgeon's Tabernacle after that. And then I made a trip back to my old church in Baltimore several years later. And after the morning service the congregation came up to visit their...to shake hands with their former pastor and to welcome him back. And out on the outer edge of the group that had come up there was man out there waving his hands. [almost cries] And finally I asked him, 'Well, sir who...who are you? What is it you want?' He called out, 'Well, Dr. Dixon, do you remember having prayer with a barkeeper when you were here?' 'Oh,' he said. 'I'll never forget that till my dying day.' He said, 'Well, Dr...Dr., [pauses] I'm that man.' He said, 'I've got a gospel wagon now going round preaching the gospel [said with emotion] as a result of your visit.' [Mrs. Patterson speaks inaudibly] Another story he told me was when he was pastor in Asheville. He went to see a...one of his deacons. (He was First Baptist Church pastor.) He went to see one of his deacons and the deacon had not come in for the dinner they had at the middle of the day. So his wife went out in the back yard and got a workman out there, a mountaineer who was working in the backyard, to come in and make a fi...fire for the preacher while he waited for the deacon to come. Well, Dr. [pauses] said, "I thought I...I thought I saw a good opportunity to witness so while he was kneeling down making the fire [pauses] I asked him if he was a Christian." He said, "No, sir, the preachers aint got no use for such as me." Well, said Dr. Dixon, "I know who does have use for you. It's the Lord Jesus Christ. He loves you." And he went on to give him the gospel message and then he asked him if he would accept Christ as his Savior. (Waxhaw, I got you here quicker than I thought.) So he said [pauses]...(I see this has changed so I hardly know it.) [pauses] He said, the man came the next des...he'd...he gave...gave his life to Christ there and came the next Sunday and rejoi...and joined this church. And then he was so happy over his relationship to Christ that he just couldn't contain...(turn left here)...he couldn't contain himself. And he went all around into the...into the coves and hollows of the mountains and all around where he could find an audience and gave the gospel out to everybody who he could get to listen to it. And he finally made his way way back forty miles off the rain...railroad back into Hayesville, North Carolina, way d...almost down to the Georgia bor...a...line. And he found a school there that was open and he went in there and held a series of meetings. And he [yawns]...during, during those meetings a teenage boy came forward and he was George Truett, whom Baptists claimed as their lar...greatest preacher. George Truett pastor of the Saint...(no you go...yes, go straight on. Yeah, this is right. That goes to Monroe.
VIDA PATTERSON: I...I had that coat. I had his coat cleaned. [?]
PATTERSON: What's that?
VIDA PATTERSON: That coat of Dixon's that I threw away.
PATTERSON: I don't know what you're talking....
VIDA PATTERSON: That coat that I threw away.
PATTERSON: What coat?
VIDA PATTERSON: Dixon's. A.C. Dixon's.
PATTERSON: Vida, I don't know what you're talking about.
VIDA PATTERSON: Miss Fizer [?] gave Dixon that coat.
PATTERSON: Oh, yeah. He left...Dr. [pauses]...he had an old...old cutaway coat that he gave me. Vida...Vida threw it away.
ERICKSEN: Do you remember why he gave you the coat?
PATTERSON: Well, it was old and worn...
VIDA PATTERSON: His secretary....
PATTERSON: ...and he didn't want it any...
VIDA PATTERSON: Miss Fizer gave it to me.
VIDA PATTERSON: His secretary gave it.
PATTERSON: No, that's right. His secretary was a good friend of ours who...who had moved to Charlotte and she had the coat. She gave it to us.
ERICKSEN: As a memento or because you needed a coat on....?
PATTERSON: No, well, it was a...it was a cutaway coat that he didn't use regularly.
VIDA PATTERSON: It was his, that's why. [unclear]
VIDA PATTERSON: ...all the luck if he doesn't waste time.
ERICKSEN: You...I'd like you to...to get you to...to talk about R.A. Torrey. We haven't talked about him I don't...him at all.
PATTERSON: All right.
ERICKSEN: What are...can...can you tell me some of your recollections of him?
PATTERSON: Yes. They...of course, I knew about Torrey for years. I believe the first time I met him was [pauses]...the first time I remember right now was when he came to Charlotte to hold a meeting in 1927, which was the year before he died. He was...he...the...the meeting was in the First Presbyterian Church and I [pauses]...let's see now, when was that? [pauses] We had just joined there. I was about to think whether I'd been elected an elder there at that time or not. I'm not quite sure. I believe it was later that I...that I was elected an elder there. But he didn't accept any social engagements except one. He had moved to Asheville at that time and was living about a block from where Vida's mother [Mrs. Welfley] lived and while...had so Vida's mother became a very intimate friend with Mrs. Torrey. But when Dr. Torrey....
VIDA PATTERSON: [unclear]
VIDA PATTERSON: Dr. [unclear].
PATTERSON: Doctor what?
VIDA PATTERSON: They both were intimate with Mother, Dr. Torrey.
PATTERSON: Yes, well, of course. The both of us were...became intimate friends of them. So he came out and had dinner with us. Our children were babies then and we asked him to take them up and pray for them which he did. And in that...at that time after dinner he told me about his last meeting in Liverpool. He said that he had spoken to thirty thousand people at that time. This was in 1927 he told about. He thought...he said that the last meeting he had spoken to thirty thousand people and he thought that was almost a miracle. And he explained it this way. They had a tabernacle that would seat twelve thousand five hundred people, and twenty- five...twenty-five hundred more could be crowded in, so the tabernacle filled the first time making fifteen thousand people. And after the service they...they went out and fifteen thousand came in again and filled it. So he spoke to thirty thousand people. Well, you can imagine what a strain that might have been on his voice with no amplifiers of any kind. So he was greatly impressed with that. But he said when he got back to this country he was asked to speak on radio. Radio was just beginning to get widespread. And he was asked to come up to Minneapolis, I believe, and speak over the radio. And after he spoke on the radio [laughs] he said the...the radio oper...the radio manager told him that he had reached five hundred thousand people and he was just astonished about that, five hundred thousand people. He was overjoyed at that. This was about a year before he died. That's the way it...it was there.
ERICKSEN: Do you...?
PATTERSON: Now today you can go on a television program, be seen not merely heard, and speak to ten million or more at one time.
ERICKSEN: Yes. Do you remember anything else about him?
PATTERSON: I didn't have many other...those are about the only personal contacts I had with him. He told us...I believe he told us that night about how he decided to leave the deanship of the Moody Month...of the Moody Bible Coll...Bible...Moody Bible School. He...he and Charlie Alexander had been doing some evangelistic work and they met together and prayed. They had meetings together Saturday nights, and they had prayer meetings. And one night they came...they...they felt a definite call to go back to ev...evangelism. So he resigned the deanship of Moody and he and Charlie Alexander went to Australia. And he told me this much about the Australian meeting. They [clears his throat]...
ERICKSEN: (We go right here?)
PATTERSON: (No, I think you go this way.)
PATTERSON: (Yeah, this...that...goes to Monroe.
ERICKSEN: (All right.)
PATTERSON: (Yeah, this is right. That's...you go by that church. If you want to remember a landmark, there it is.) So he went to...to...what...what's the campaign city in Australia?
He...he...he and Charlie Alexander went over there for a meeting, Sydney. Well, they had a big meeting. But near them was a...a big dance hall that was widely used there in the city and there was somewhat of a contest on the part of the...the...the dance hall. Well, he got a...an invitation or else he...he and Charlie Alexander, they went up there to that dance hall and just went on and preached to them up there [laughs] and just about broke up the dance hall.
VIDA PATTERSON: What about that sermon we heard him preach?
VIDA PATTERSON: You said you'd never forget.
PATTERSON: Oh, one of the sermons he preached down at the First Presbyterian Church in Charlotte was this. His meeting lasted a week and right at the beginning of the week he announced that he was going to speak on Friday night, "One Thing That Is Absolutely Sure." And he said, "I want you to be there to hear that." Well he...he didn't say what it was but he advertised it that way all week. "On Friday night I'm going to speak on One Thing That Is Absolutely Sure." And when Friday night came he announced his subject. I believe it's Numbers 22:23 [Numbers 32:23], "Be sure that your sins will find you out." I was sitting near the back of the church and he made [laughs] it so graphic and so impressive you...I...you felt like holding on the front of the bee...bench and...sea...in front of you to...it...it was so...so horrifying to the sinner and so wonderful for the believer that it...it just thrilled your hearts and he had a...a great response that night. One....
PATTERSON: (No, straight on. The...that goes to Monroe there.) One thing that is absolutely sure, be sin your...be sure your sin will find you out. And he gave example of that over and over until you just trembled almost about the possibility...the...the dread of...of sin. And then when he gave invitational and there was [Mrs. Patterson coughs] a big response.
ERICKSEN: You mentioned then that he died in Asheville?
PATTERSON: Yeah. (Now he...right...right here...the next...right where that turns, that car turned, turn right there. This is Mr. Belk's [?] first store right here. One of those up there.)
ERICKSEN: You mentioned [Mrs. Patterson coughs] that he died in...in Asheville?
PATTERSON: Yes, let Vida tell you all about that.
VIDA PATTERSON: No, you tell that.
PATTERSON: No, you tell him.
VIDA PATTERSON: No, I'm not going to tell.
PATTERSON: Your mother told you, your mother was there.
VIDA PATTERSON: Go on.
PATTERSON: Well, I'll tell it then. If I make any mistakes you correct me.
VIDA PATTERSON: They were very intimate and I had [unclear]....
PATTERSON: You see, Vida's mo...mother lived about a block from the...the house that Dr. Torrey moved in. In his later three or four years he moved to Asheville and he lived there. Mrs. Welfley, Vida's mother, just was greatly disappointed that so little attention was given to him in Ral...in Asheville. He was almost unnoticed. And she said, "Well, if a movie actor moved...moved there they'd have filled the newspaper with it almost." But he was practically noticed...unnoticed. Of course, there were some of the earnest Christians there that knew him and became...came...became intimate with him. But he had just about worn out his voice with these speakers [tape ends abruptly]....