Billy Graham Center
World Congress on Evangelism, 1966
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of the 11/4/1966 Press Conference at the World Congress on Evangelism for Waorani
Indians Yaeti Kimo and Gikita Komi, Together with Rachel Saint and George Cowan
of Wycliffe Bible Translators and Gil Stricklin of the Congress Press Office.
[Comments in brackets were added by the transcriber. To hear an audio file of
this press conference, click here
The transcript is found in Collection
24, Box 1, Folder 3. The audio recording is T24 in the same collection.]
STRICKLIN: Today we have some interesting guests that you have asked
to bear and to speak to you. I’d like first to introduce our visitors
here today for the press and. then we will have a word by a couple of these
and then we will be open for questions. And from what I understand from you,
this is what you wanted and we certainly want to serve you and please...to be
pleasing unto you.
just like to have preface before I introduce these people, that it may be difficult
for some people here today because of the culture and society you grew up in
to be able to understand fully the impact and the situation of this event today.
I not so sure that I can, but I want to try to. And without saying that we are
going to barr any questions, I do went every man and woman here today to take
into consideration the implication of this meeting today. I believe this will
be enough to be said.
of all, I want you to meet...you’ve read her books, you’ve read
about her in publications around the world and probably no present day missionary
more well-known than Miss Rachael Saint. Miss Saint, would you just stand for
a moment. [applause]
Then I would like to skip our other two visitors and go to Mr. George Cowan.
Mr Cowan would you stand as the president of the Bible...of the Wycliffe Bible
then, Mr. Komi Gikita from Ecuador and Mr. Kimo Yaeti, also from Ecuador. [applause]
Komi is on your right and Kimo is on your left.
have asked George Cowan to say a few words in opening our press conference today.
Mr. Cowan is responsible for the direction of the Bible...Wycliffe Bible Translators
and I have asked him to be specific in relating briefly, very briefly about
the work in Ecuador of his group and then after Mr. Cowan, I have asked Miss
Saint to open our conference by telling of some things that have happened in
Ecuador in the last few years and after that I will direct the press conference
for questions. Mr. Cowan.
COWAN: Do I need to use this [the microphone]?
Perhaps you wonder why two Indians from the jungles of Ecuador are at this World
Congress on Evangelism in Berlin. The reason is that the conference has its in
coal of reaching men everywhere for Christ and with the message of the Gospel.
One of the major areas...problem areas in obtaining this goal are these two thousand
or more tribes around the world who are living in isolated, out-of-the-way, remote
areas, difficult of access and who also speak another language, one which has
never been reduced to writing in most cases or if it has, still lacks a translation
of the Scriptures.
particular tribe is one that has come to the attention of the world, now has
its first portion of the Bible translated in its language. Those among this
tribe who seemed so impossible to reach, so isolated, so difficult, have now
been effectively reached and they themselves are in turn being evangelists to
reach others. This is why they’re here. They fit in this conference. And
then, reaching them with the Bible. The most effective means we have found in
reaching tribes effectively so that tribe itself undergoes a very profound change
individually and in its society, cultural forms and so on is to introduce them
to the Bible in their mother tongue. The Wycliffe Bible Translators is an organization
set up to do exactly that as its main goal. We hare 1,800 field members working
in eighteen different countries. We are now translating or doing linguistic
work in 400 different languages, hitherto unworked on in the world. And we have
another organization which is responsible for the linguistic scientific research
necessary to reduce these languages to writing and undergird the translation
of the Bible. This is the Summer Institute of Linguistics. Seven branches of
this are conducted - three in America with the University of Oklahoma, University
of North Dakota and the University of Washington in. Seattle; one in. Australia;
one in New Zealand; one in Great Britain and one here in Germany in the German
language. This is the overall program that we are carrying on to get the Gospel
into these 2,000 or more tribes that still have never had it. And, im are entering
new tribes at an average rate of three per month. Given the workers trained
and sent by the churches around the world, there is no reason why the remaining
tribes could not have some of the Bible for the first time in history in the
next thirty years. This perhaps will give you the general broad background against
which this is set.
Now Miss Saint.
SAINT: Do I speak here?
No, you can stand if you want.
I would like to preface my few remarks by saying that we three are just as interested
in all of you as you are in us. We have come from a very isolated spot, a very
peaceful spot in a very dangerous setting and we count it a privilege to be here.
In every sense we feel that we are the least in our Father’s house. Just
briefly, we do not need to go into the past, my work has been in a tribe of killers,
killers who killed my own brother and four others. But just briefly to bring it
up to the present, we now have in our Tiwaeno Village a thatched-roof church built
by the five men who killed the missionaries and other...others with them, but
all five of them helped to build that church in my absence. We have a literacy
campaign, perhaps the uniquest [sic] night school in the world. We have a happy
community. We have seen old patterns go out and new patterns come in with the
presentation of God’s word. This has been done primarily by my Indian informant,
Dayuma, of whom some of you know, and these folks here in a very real way have
been my teachers - my teachers of their language, their culture, and their own
thinking. And I have, under God’s hand, tried to be their teacher, teaching
things of which they had never heard. They had a warped concept of God, but did
not even know the name of Jesus and we are happy to be a part of this Congress
Thank you so much. This has just been a brief introduction. Now we will
be open to questions, if you would like to direct them to Miss Saint, to the
gentlemen, or to her individually, or to Mr. Cowan, just make that known. And
the first question, if you would just raise your hand please. [unclear] of UPI.
Could they just start by giving us a little of their impressions of the outside
Is that directed to me?
Yes, you just STAND AND answer it.
They have been interested in the outside world and not nearly so envious as
some of us think they might be. They will be very happy to got back to their
jungle. They were not afraid of airplanes. We have small airplanes in our jungle
aviation and radio service who have served us for six of our eight years in
Tiwaeno so they have been making transitions on up to the jet clipper with my
brother as pilot to assure them. He flies jets like this in New York City. Automobiles
have scared then stiff, liberally. I thought that was just a figure of speech,
but I know now that people can be scared stiff and Kimo was when he first saw
an automobile. They have been impressed with the very tall buildings and the
very short trees
You might tell them about [unclear]
Okay. One observation that Kimo made was that "the monkeys couldn’t live
in these trees - they aren't tall enough," These folks hunt monkeys in their
200, 150 foot jungle trees by centering the monkeys in the tress, cutting down
the trees all around it so that he can't jump to another tree and then going
for him, sometimes shooting up the tree to do it with a blow gun and poison
You might add a word about the food last night, if you want to.
What we did at the [unclear]?
About the fish.
Oh. [chuckles] They registered a complaint about the fish in the Hotel Hilton
here. They said that here the fish here grows like this and our fish of the
same type in the jungle rivers grows like this.
Could we perhaps get a comment from the two men themselves about how they feel
[unclear] and what their impressions are?
Kimo, [translates question and listens to his reply, then translates it into
English] You all do very wonderful things here. [Kimo says more and she translates]
All the little telephones in the rooms, they are wonderful little gadgets too.
[laughter] Asking Komi here, see what he comes up with. [speaks to Komi]
Could they stand please when they answer?
[talks to Komi some more, listens to his reply, translates into English] Here
I see lots of people. Some of them believe (meaning, believe in God) and some
of them don't believe in God. I say why don't all of then believe in God?
He’s talking about people here?
Well, people in general in the outside world.
Could I just ask when was the firs time ...this is a very trite question, but
when was the first time he wore Western clothes?
Well, they dress just like our pilots do. The pilots come in to see us and if
he comes in with a tee shirt with a shirt on over that, the next Sunday in church,
anybody who owns two shirts has both of them on. So, they have been gradually
broken in and this is the first time they have had suits and have had to use
outer coats – they use the same word that’s used for the bark of
the tree to say overcoat – and they feel kind of cumbersome in it and
will be glad to got rid of them.
[to Saint] You might want to do this for German [unclear] This gentleman right
[question is asked in German and then translated] What about their personal
beliefs? Could you say something about that please?
I wonder if you could repeat the question please?
I have it.
Oh you have. Okay.
He wants a testimony.
He wants a testimony about his personal beliefs.
Kimo, [translates question and listens to his reply, then translates it into
English] He says, “God did wonderful things to me and I became a believer.”
[Saint talks further to Kimo in his language and translates his reply] He says,
“Before I lived sinning and God has done wonderful things for so and now
I live well.” [Saint talks further to Kimo in his language and translates
his reply] He says, being a believer, God told him to come far away (come and
return as we say in our language) and he , “I...I very happily see all
of these other believers who are like my relatives.” [Saint talks further
to Kimo in his language and translates his reply] He says, “It being thus,
I am very happy meeting all of my brothers - those who believe in God. [Saint
talks further to Kimo in his language and translates his reply] He says, “And
then when we die, we will go high in the sky,” (meaning Heaven) “and
all of you who are my brothers we will have another meeting there in Heaven.”
This gentleman right here.
If I may ask a question, as the present moment, how many Aucas have converted
and become members of the church?
I'm a poor one for statistics here. I don't know whether it would be 30 or 40,
but I could tell you better by saying that of the adult population which been
greatly decimated through the years by the spearing, not through recent years
but before our arrival, there are only 4 or 5 that have not yet received Christ
as their personal Savior My brother made the remark that we probably have the
greatest percentage of believers of any group in the world. I don’t know
whether this is true but it may be close to it because there are so few among
the adults and young people who are not believers. Our total community in 90
now. Of that 90, many are widows and a great many of then are children so that
most of the adult group have now turned to Christ.
[Question asked in German, then translated into English. Recording is unclear,
but apparently was , “How far have the Aucas gone in reaching other tribes”]
I would like to toss this question to one of the boys just for a reaction...
What was the question?
...and I’ll clarify it if they don’t get it. [starts to translate]
Repeat the question.
The question is, how far have the Aucas gone in reaching other tribes.
The first answer is we have not tried to reach other tribes but there are other
groups of Aucas who are living in unbelievable sin and extreme savagery. The
latest killing was three weeks before we left and they speak the same language.
And our thrust has began from the inside to try to reach those from the inside
with whom we have had no contact until recent attempts. [translates question
to Komi and listens to his reply, then translates it into English] He says,
“The down-river groups live very, very badly,, They have speared the foreigners
on the outside and within their own family they do a lot of spearing. [Saint
talks to him further and then translates hi comments] He says that, “Because
of that we went...we went with the...we worked with the captains and we searched
and searched for these down-river people.”
what happened was that one Sunday morning when we were having an ordinary Sunday
service a little different from most - everyone sits cross-legged on the floor
and I asked Dui if the children would sing their little song which is the equivalent
to "Jesus Loves Me" in Auca and he...he said "But...but Star,” (they call
me Star), “I have something I want to say." Then he said, "Oh well, we
'II sing first and then I'll say it." Of course, we all were curious by that
time. So the children song their little song and Dui said "God has called me
to go to the down- river people." It just busted up the meeting "But we can't
do it," everybody began to talk. "You'll be killed," this that and the other.
But from that first beginning God has led us step by step. As I talked to Dayuma
she said, "But we can’t do it. They will spear us. I do not have the relationship
that I had here. I cannot go to them. The men cannot go to then without being
killed.'' Then I said, "Dayuma, God sent you to me to help reach your people
who are killers and if we need a woman then let's ask God for one. Let’s
trust Him.” And in time God sent as a young girl, recently escaped from
the savage group, and talk went on about when they should go to that savage
group. To make a long story short, they tried once and got back in six days.
We sent them with a little transceiver radio which our technicians had...radio...in
fact, HCJB technicians prepared this one, a little eight pound transceiver,
and they went the second time and were back in about eight days and had not
gotten through that time because the rivers were impassable, They had gotten
caught between two and they...if they didn't got back soon they would be caught
between swollen rivers without food,, They said "Well, if we had really been
caught, we would have just waited until your pilots dropped us food."
they began to count the coat and they aside "Well, they’ll...they’ll
steal everything we own.” They came to me and said, They'll steal your
things.” but it was their own things that they were worried about. They
began to count the cost and some of them began to shrink back, We had another
prayer meting and finally with all hearts open before the Lord, four of our
group sent out...set out to open a trail that had been closed for years between
the terrifically savage group (which we call the down river group) and our group.
It took them ten days to open that trail. It took them four days to got back
home fleeing for their lives with people spearing behind them, fleeing...I mean
following them to spear. And the story which most of you know is that when they
reached...almost reached their destination they found that the four people with
whom they had the right relationship to send a girl in without being killed,
they found that those folks, as far as they could tell, had been speared before
they got there. There is a little more to the story, but I don’t know
whether to go on here or not.
Maybe another question at this point. Yes sir.
Could we get at least some approximate ages for [unclear]?
Use the microphone please for your question.
The approximate ages is the question. Officially now Komi im 25 and Kimo 28.
We have no way of knowing the exact ages except by comparing within the tribe,
telling who was older when you born. It is a very primitive set-up. Ages have
meant nothing to us or they have their own way of calculating, when your two
front tooth came in; who was born before you were, and so forth.
Are they married?
Both are married. Komi in married to Dayuma of whom Harpers have published a
book, He’s been married for four years and has two children-3 year old
Nancy and a 1 year old baby Eunice.
like to go back to that question that somebody asked just a minute ago and tell
you that when the group told Dui that he would be killed if he went to the down-river
group, his reply was, "If God sends me, I will go in spite of this fact.”
He said, “Five men came to us and we killed them.” And he said,
“The Lord sent someone else to us. If I go in response to God's call and
they kill me, then I as sure that God will send someone else so that they too
will come to know the Lord.”
Yes sir [unclear]
[unclear, apparently something like “Did they have religious beliefs before
you contacted them?”]
Yes, I believe that every tribe has some kind of religious beliefs. Their beliefs
were in the devils and witchcraft. It was shot through their whole culture.
But actually they were in a sense prepared for the reception of the Gospel in
that they were in a sort-of religious vacuum when we arrived. Their system is
to kill witch doctors off who are accused of cursing and causing death to someone
and in this way this particular related group, all related to Dayuma, had killed
off all of their witch doctors. This left them with nothing. Thus they were
in a spiritual vacuum when we arrived and they were eager to hear more. One
belief of God was that...one thing their ancestors told was (and there are very
few stories like this) that when one dies he turns into a termite and he lives
in the rafters. Dayuma didn't like that idea and her question to her grandfather
was, "Then what happens when the termite dies?" All he could say was '"That
is the end."
Any other questions? [pause] Yes sir, Mr. Larsen?
[Probably Mel Larson of The Evangelical Beacon, United States] Do they
know the Scripture and could they recite it for us, say like John 3:16?
Uh huh. Yes, they know some verses by heart and a great many stories from both
the Old and New Testaments. They know with all the details. They like the stories
to go from the ancestry of the person and go after his death. We'll ask them.
[Translates question and listens to reply, then gives answer in English.] That’s
John 3:16. In answer to that question, we now have in written form the Gospel
of Mark (I believe I have a copy of it somewhere) which is the very first bit
of verse by verse actual Scripture in the language. We...we have taught a great
deal of the Scriptures. I say "we"- I taught Dayuma and she taught her people.
But this was the first bit of the Scriptures. It was delivered to the people
on Easter Sunday a year ago, Easter a year ago, and I myself was amazed at the
wonderful reception that this, the printed Word of God, meant to the Aucas.
One of the sweetest reactions was that in my literacy campaign (and I had to
start with the older men) one man Kikita, the oldest man, had not been interested
in reading. All these younger men like Kimo and Komi come to night school and
are well on their way to reading, but the next morning after this book was introduced
Kikita cam to me (old Uncle Kikita, as we call him) and said, "Star, now that
there is God’s Book in our language,” (they call it “God’s
carvings,”), “I want to learn to read," and he’s been a very
faithful student ever since.
Yes sir, Reuters.
Could you tell me perhaps [unclear] with in the tribes, what their activities
The question is, what are the...in a normal day, what are the activities
for a normal day, In Ecuador?
For Kimo and Komi, it could mean going out at dawn with a blow gun or blow gun
with poison darts or a spear (depending upon what animals they are looking for,
depending upon what season it is) or a fishing spear to bring in food. A great
deal of their time is spent in getting meat for the family. For the women it
would be going out at dawn with a machete, a bush knife, to clear weeds and
plant in their chocraes [sp?]. And for me it would be sticking with the books
these days in translating the Bible, in working on primers to keep ahead of
my reading class and doing whatever medical work happens to come up and just
generally soaking the people thinking so that I can show them God's answers
to their hearts.
This gentleman in the back, Mr. Duncan from Texas.
[Mr. Clarence E. Duncan from the Southern Baptist Radio and Televison Commission]:
Miss Saint, I have noticed in the books that some of the missionaries’
children were or perhaps are still living with you, with the tribe there and
I was wondering what effect this had on the children and how you teach them
For the last five years or so I live been alone in the tribe except for a short
period when Kathryn Peak [sp?], also of our Wycliffe organization has been with
me so it’s been a number of years. The children have visited however.
My own nephews and nieces love to come to the tribe. We don't dare let them
come now, because the trail is open to the savage groups, but when we knew the
savage groups were separated from us we let them come. Nate Saint, my brother
who was the pilot on the Operation Auca that...who lost his life, and his children
love nothing better than to come to the tribe and I think it has had a wonderful
effect on the Aucas to know that they are loved by the children of the men that
they killed. And for the children it has been a wonderful thing for them to
know that these savage Aucas can be just wonderful companions and playmates
and friends and we just kind of have to line it out as to whose turn is next
to come or they would be out there all the time.
Yes, sir. Mr. Masindorf [sp?]
Miss Saint, do you notice the sociological changes and changes of custom and
all within the tribe taking place because of your influence or because of the
changes taking place within the members of the tribe as they come to Christ?
The longer I live the more I realize that my own influence is almost nil. These
tribes do not take much stock in a woman in the first place. They have put more
stock in what Dayuma herself has said, one of their own, but the fact that we
have lived in this tribe who were once killers, we attribute to the fact that
it is not we that said, "Do not kill," but that Dayuma, one of their own people,
went in first and said, "God in Heaven, the living God in Heaven, does not want
you to kill other people.” Kimo told a reporter the other day that they
learned that God did not...God created all the people of the world to be brothers.
He did not want them to kill people. He said to just kill the animals for food
and the birds in the Heaven. And I think had we not gone in with God’s
Word ...we have a unique situation. Our folks usually go in with nothing of
the language and start from scratch. I had studied the language on the outside
over the period of a couple of years before I went into the tribe. I had taught
Dayuma and we went in with the capacity to say "This is what that living God
in Heaven says. This is what His Son’s name is. This is His plan for man.”
And if we had we not been able to do that in this particular circumstance, we
would not have lived to be here to tell you about it today.
This gentleman right back here.
I’d like to know, does the government have interest in the Indians for
This is a problem which does not begin to affect us as yet ... since these people
are completely mono-lingual. The tribe has lived in an isolation that is almost
inconceivable in this day and age. They know only their own language. We have
plans now to begin teaching them with tapes both the Quicha language on their
borders and Spanish, but my time has been too busy with things that are far
more important and actually I think our tribe does help the military in that
they guard the border between our country and the next one to the south and
even the Peruvian neighbors are afraid of the Aucas.
Yes sir, Mr. Pue.
[T. William Pue of Sun Publishing, Canada]: Do you know of any attempt of the
government of Ecuador to go in and [unclear] at least, to more or less occupy
the uncontrolled territories? I use the [unclear] Canada. You know, you talk
about the wild west. There was no wild west in Canada, because the army [?]
came in before the white settlers came in and had everything under control.
Is there still no attempt [unclear] to go in and occupy and force the law of
the land on these natives?
I think this has been thought of and heard, although I cannot prove it, that
requests have boon made to the government to go in and wipe out the tribe. I
also have heard that one president at least refused to do it. Actually the tribal
warfare techniques are such that most Ecuadorians and most everybody else are
desperately afraid of them. We have guns on the outside but the Aucas are experts
at guerilla warfare. And you just can't say, "We're going to go in there and
wipe them out" We now have the first community that there has ever been. These
people live isolated. They live out in the forest and our particular community
could be wiped out but it’s a thriving community with agriculture and
happy homes and nobody wants to wipe out our community. But the other are difficult
to find and they use techniques which would well cause the death of whoever
tried to find them first. And we are hoping that the government will wait it
out with it, so that these men who now know of the outside world,.... you see,
our problem is double. We teach the Aucas of the outside world. We also have
to teach the outside world the views of the Aucas who has been defending his
own borders just as we do in the States. We are pleading for time so that men
like Kimo and Komi can go in from the outside with the advantage of knowing
their own people and their own language and though...though it means risking
their own lives, they are willing to do it to try to reach these savage groups
and reach the big...vast territory that they hold.
This gentleman right here.
Is the government of Ecuador or any other agency attempting, to bring a literacy
campaign to the tribes there?
To which Indians?
The various tribes?
Yes, we have a program that is in its third or fourth year in Ecuador now. We
work under the ministry of education and in conjunction with the ministry of
education we have now have at our base, our Yarinacocha base a bilingual teacher’s
training school. We bring Indians in from five or six different tribes, men
who speak their own tribal language and a little bit of limited amount of Spanish,
a limited Spanish to be sure. But in conjunction with the ministry of education
we are teaching these selected men how to go back and be teachers in schools
in their own tribes. This is something we have done in Peru. George Cowan, do
you know the statistics in Peru?
We’s had up to 140 per year from 17 different tribes in Peru and
the Peruvian government is exceedingly happy about the whole program. And in
fact, UNESCO sends delegations quite frequently to get the technique of introducing
education to such areas and spread it to other countries.
I might add that we find this method very effective. I was proud of
the difference that it has made in these bilingual teachers ,to be treated like
men and treated by professors. We have Latin Americans from the various countries
come in and teach them. And then behind the scenes our own translators tell
them again in their own language what they've been taught in Spanish and it
is a very thing that compliments each other. In Peru they have 127 schools in
isolated tribes and it is being a new day out in the jungle because of this
system. We're teaching them not only reading, writing and arithmetic, but agriculture.
We run medical courses so that the teachers learn how to be...to treat the common
diseases in the tribes too. They also have their own radios. When we leave the
tribe we leave our...our transceivers behind and if they need a consultation
with the doctor they call in on the radio and if they need a translator, our
folks stand by to do it.
Do they know any Christian hymns and could they possibly sing one for us?
Our hymn book which isn’t printed yet has three hymns in it. The first
one Dayuma wrote and the second one Dui wrote (composed, lets say) and the third
one is the children's hymn "Jesus Loves Me." [Saint talks to Kimo and Komi]
You will see that this repeats the same phrase over. It used to be about 40
times. They may cut it down for your benefit. Dixie Dean of radio station HCJB
insists that this is a one-note melody, although it seems to have three with
its overtones and they have enjoyed your music and will be glad to sing for
you. [they talk together some more and Komi coughs] Komi has been sick in bed
for three days and he will do the best he can here. You’ll see that the
older man will lead off, I believe. [They talk back and forth and then Kimo
and Komi sing. When they are done, the group applauds]
I might add just a word. This is a hymn superimposed on an old time Auca hymn
about Creation. And Dayuma chose this tune and this song because the first verse
started out, “God created, God created everything. He created everything
in the whole world” And this is all I knew for a long time. And they put
gospel words to it. “Here happily we will live and later we will go to
Heaven and live forever there,” and this kind of thing. But I later found
out that in the original verse, although the first verse said, God created everything,
the next verse said that the woodpecker with his beak swept down and created
the high hills, undoubtedly the Andes Mountains. But this is...they know this
is no longer true and the truth of God’s word has been superimposed on
an ancient Auca tune. And the first verse is the same in both.
Miss Saint, when Nate and Jim and the others went in initially prior to Operation
Auca, they dropped...I believe they dropped machetes and things like this to
the Aucas as a peace offering or a means of opening the door. Do you use similar
means now that the [unclear] was opened to win the confidence of some of these
We have discussed what technique we would use and what we should do and we were
led, we felt, by God himself to try for a personal contact first. The folks
said...we said, “Well, what about it? What about another Operation Auca?”
And these people were thrilled with it and they tell us all about it, because
they were the recipients of these gifts. And they answered by saying "If only
one Auca could get through first and tell them what's going one then they would
believe it." And went on to tell me that the Auca believes today that all outsiders
are cannibals. They have terrific prejudices against outsiders. Things..., well,
we chanced one legend down. And they talked about this "canto" thing that alerted
the people to go out and they victimized Aucas by cutting their flesh off and
eating them alive and thus causing their death, I pushed around for quite a
while to find out what this "canto,” as they called it, was and we finally
found out that it pretty well serves as the description of a Briggs and Straton
motor. Somewhere on the borders they have seen in foreigners things, a motor,
and they insisted that they took the Auca's blood and painted it on this thing
called the "canto" and doubtless it was nothing but red paint of some oil company
that they had seen on their borders years ago.
What kind of music do they like the most, jazz or classical?
Well, I don't like jazz so they don't hear much of it on my radio. Kimo comes
over, his favorite program is a classical music one that comes on at noon and
he very often comes over alone and turns it on and listens to it. They have
been thrilled to find that other people in the world have more notes than they
have. They try to imitate them and one of our young girls who loves music and
to sing was just like a bird let loose. One day I got out my little accordion
and played with my few fingers and sang and she picked up an obligato and tried
to imitate me. She was just like a bird let loose from a cage. So, they do enjoy
the broader freedom of music.
Any other questions?
Have they seen the wall [the Berlin Wall dividing the city at that time] and
do they have any concept of the [unclear] government?
I am reserving telling them about the wall until they are safely back in Tiwaeno.
Then I will tell then about the wall. All I have told them about the church
that was bombed is that it was rotten and they have rebuilt new. When I had
Dayuma in the [United] States, I found that perhaps it would be better to just
hold this until later. I don't deceive them. If they ask me point blank, I would
tell them, but we just feel, I do at least , that we should wait until we get
back home, at least until we get back over that deep water.
Getting back to Western civilization, their reaction to Western civilization,
have they expressed their preference for any kind of thing? They are wanting
to get back to their jungle, but is there any kind of thing that they would
like to take with them, either as a souvenir or a present for their wives?
They haven't been around very far yet. One thing that they do very much want
to do is see an elephant and see the animals in the zoo. What they usually like
to do proceeding from the known to the unknown. Dayuma has been on the outside
and she's put in her request to bring her back a revolver. [laugher] Komi now
has a gun, worked for it and has his own gun. But Dayuma would like to have
a revolver to have on hand when Komi isn’t here...isn't there and she
feels that maybe once in a while she could get a bird for food when he has to
Any other questions? We don’t want to linger, but.... Is there another
question anywhere? Yes sir.
In connection with that, Dayuma has stressed the fact that they are not to kill.
Do they know about so-called Christian killing and the war in Vietnam, and things
such as that or have you also reserved [unclear]?
No, we have not kept this thing from them. We tell them that other people protect
their borders too. The biggest thing in these tribes, of course, is what do
you do about this matter of killing. And I teach them that God doesn’t
want this killing of their fellow man because killing has been a matter of deep-seated
personal hatred and revenge and this I know is sinful. And we teach them the
story of David when David had a chance to revenge and kill Saul who was seeking
his life and I think one of the biggest thrills of their lives is to hear how
David, instead of killing Saul when he had several opportunities found some
other way. And when he was completely surrounded, God protected him. These kind
of things from God's word they have latched onto and have applied it to their
own culture. And I figure that if I teach them that God doesn't want them to
kill but if the time ever come for self-defense, they'll have to solve that
themselves. But since I know that killing for them has been deep-seated hatred
and a pattern of deep sin, I teach them the opposite.
Do these gentlemen ever talk about the incident or the martyrdom of the five
Yes, they talk about it. Maybe I could answer your question best by telling
you that when Kathy Saint, my niece who was about 13 went out to the tribes,
she went around freely with everybody One day Dayuma’s sister, Obo, was
talking to her and she said, "Oh, Auntie Rachael, I don’t know what she’s
talking about. Come and tell me." So I came in and tuned into the frequency
and I said "Oh, Kathy, she’s telling you that her father was speared.”
Then Kathy gasped and said, "Oh.,was her father speared too?" Because for Kathy
it was deep sorrow. And I said "Yes, Kathy, and if you went around this group
you would find that every adult in the group would tell you the same thing,
that their parents were speared." Then we just checked then. Every adult person,
except the few that we knew where a mother was still living, had lost both parents
by spearing. And I don’t...forget what your question was, but spearing
is a very common thing to them. Now they say, "Not knowing, not understanding,
we killed your men.” I'm quite sure that they did it partly because exploitations
had taken such a heavy toll. In our group we still have people who carry gun
shot wounds, There have been many Aucas killed by guns and somebody asked the
question earlier, "What does the government do about the Aucas who are killers?"
Dayuma says, "What does the government do about those people on the outside
who kill my people?” And nothing is done about this either. And she said
"Well, you should tell your government that if the government doesn’t
do something about them, we Aucas should capture them and hold them for a year
and give them nothing but muca and water to drink and then let them go.”
That’s all the time we have. I’m sure we could stay the rest of
the afternoon with questions. But on behalf of the press corp of the World Congress
on Evangelism, Miss Saint, gentlemen, Mr. Cowan, we thank you very much for
giving us your time this afternoon and for having this interesting discussion.
If you would be so kind and show this respect. I wonder if, Mr Cowan, you would
lead the gentlemen and Miss Saint out. We will let you leave at this moment
and then after they leave, the rest of us will be dismissed. [applause] You
will notice that on your program tonight that these two gentlemen will be speaking
on the subject, “The Fruits of Martyr Witness.” And I feel that
that will be a very interesting followup to our meeting this afternoon. And
that is on tonight’s program. Are there any other questions from the press
corp before we go, mechanical type questions?
Any advanced text at all?
No, we have nothing advanced on their behalf because I don’t think it
is that detailed on exactly what their saying.
Are they going to sing at all?
I don’t know about that, Gene. I’ll find out. Mr. Kucharsky asked
if they were going to sing tonight. Any other questions I may be able to field
better than those two?
What time is it?
I believe it is about 8:15. I will check on the program for you. Okay,
thank you very much, miss
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